8th Ed. Fun with transformations

Discussion in 'Lizardmen Tactics' started by SilverFaith, Oct 15, 2014.

  1. SilverFaith
    Terradon

    SilverFaith Member

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    So, for unrelated reasons, I was reading through the FAQ when I stumbled upon this:

    That's... interesting. Because it means several odd quirks can occur here.

    For one, we have the ability to use Mountain Chimeras or Great Fire Dragons as Arcane Vassals. That's pretty awesome, because if you manage to pull that off, you have a cheaper - and significantly better - troglodon.

    But my first thought was "Isn't the Slann's 4+ ward save a special rule?"

    So I checked, and it is indeed! But then I read his other special rules, and now things are just getting weird.

    First off, despite no longer being able to cast spells, i could technically transfer spells from my Slann-Great-Fire-Dragon to another Slann or skink priest. That's useful if he has something i need elsewhere.

    But the Mage-Priest Paalanquin rule is... hard to wrap my head around.

    He gets to reroll failed dangerous terrain tests. Alright, that's nice. He also never counts as a "model on foot" for the purposes of spells, magic items, and special rules.

    Now, this FAQ ruling specifically points out "Special rules" as still applying. But all of the aforementioned things are special rules, not equipment.

    ...So does this mean the Slann transforms into a huge Great Fire Dragon, and immediately makes himself a bigger, floating chair to sit in?

    Aside from the (admittedly pretty awesome) mental image that creates, it does have some significant implications. Because it means that, aside from the pretty ridiculous stats that both the Chimera and Fire Dragon has, it now also boasts a 4+ ward save. With a T8, 2+/4++, 8W model, you're almost impossible to bring down without an absolutely obscene amounts of war machines. Hell, it's tough enough as it is, but with that 4+ ward, you just halved the only weakness it has.

    Seriously, I want to model myself a fire dragon on a floating throne now, and run Beast slanns/keep exchanging High lore spells for beast, just to try this out. Because it sounds incredibly awesome.
     
  2. DanBot
    Ripperdactil

    DanBot Member

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    Pretty sure it says slanns can't use the transformation spell. :(
     
  3. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    but at least skink priest can use it now. ;)
     
  4. SilverFaith
    Terradon

    SilverFaith Member

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    Ah damn, I missed that clause on Transformation of Kadon... damn.

    I was already looking for a huge fire dragon sitting in a throne :(

    Still, a Great Fire Dragon suddenly blasting people with Arcane Vassal spells is pretty neat :p

    A thought though - what WOULD be the best arcane vassal monster? A dragon can fly, so that makes it mobile on top of being incredible tough to bring down, but put it in close combat (Where it does the most harm and is safe from cannons) he can no longer function as an arcane vassal.

    So what would be the best option if the primary goal was an arcane vassal?
     
  5. rychek
    Troglodon

    rychek Active Member

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    Keep in mind that Transformation of Kadon is a Remains in Play spell. This means it can, and probably will, be dispelled in your opponents magic phase.

    That aside, the best arcane vassal, IMO, would be either the Great Fire Dragon or the Mountain Chimera. Why? Because unlike their weaker monster brethren, they are NOT Large Targets. It makes no sense, but check out the Bestiary on page 160 of the BRB. Large Target is specified on the other profiles, but not on those two.

    I think ToK is wasted by focusing on AV though. There is nothing better than the look on your opponent's face when you charge a Skink Priest into his general then successfull turn that skink into a monster. I did that to Malekith in a Storm of Magic game once. It was priceless!
     
  6. Putzfrau
    Skar-Veteran

    Putzfrau Well-Known Member

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    Isn't large target basically an irrelevant rule to begin with?
     
  7. eaglesmvp11
    Skink

    eaglesmvp11 New Member

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    Tehenhauin can do it. There's a 5++ Dragon that is immune to poison. :jawdrop:

    Edit: scratch the 5++, as it is on an item, but still. Immune to poison on a great big monster is pretty cool
     
  8. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    huh immune to poison... must be a new perk. :jawdrop:
     
  9. Pinktaco
    Skar-Veteran

    Pinktaco Vessel of the Old Ones Staff Member

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    Beastmen mountain chimera that rerolls to hit is not fun._.
     
  10. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

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    The big monsters that used to be Skinks would also have Aquatic too. Presumably Scaly Skin 6+ if the monster they become doesn't have better.
     
  11. SilverFaith
    Terradon

    SilverFaith Member

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    That would be near impossible to deal with for some armies. I don't see WEs doing anything but redirect such a monster.

    Aside from magic, obviously. Good thing we are good at dispelling! ;)

    EDIT: An Elf Mountain Chimera would also be pretty nasty - ASF on a beast like that is nasty.
     
  12. SilverFaith
    Terradon

    SilverFaith Member

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    Speaking of Tehen... He'd also get unbreakable if in a unit of jungle swarms (which he is still allowed to).

    He technically also gets the d6 extra attacks, but they are pretty meh. If you are a Great Fire Dragon or chimera, you probably wont care all that much for a few extra s2 poisoned attacks.

    His still a bit expensive, especially considering he takes point out of your lord choices. It makes a Slann difficult to fit in, which means you lose a good chunk of your magic if you transform him. Would be fun against skavens though! I can't imagine an unbreakable Great Fire Dragon immune to poison and with hatred would be fun to deal with for the little rats :p
     
  13. GhostWarrior
    Cold One

    GhostWarrior Member

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    I know this was the case with the last Lizardmen book. But since this current book has come out, there's no FAQ for Lizardmen (as we all know :/ ). So, that previous ruling doesn't apply anymore, or have I missed something?

    Now - whether or not its a good idea to have your Ethereal Slann turn into a Mountain Chimera is totally different story.
     
  14. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    Only models on foot can use the spell, the slann is not "on foot" He's on a Panaqiuin.
    (this also keeps him from riding the magic carpet)
    otherwise we would see silly things like skink priest on stegadons
    transforming into a draggon riding a stegadon. :jawdrop: o_O :jawdrop:
     
  15. Madrck
    Temple Guard

    Madrck Member

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    Oh god do I want that, A mountain chimera riding an ancient steg with an EOTG.
    Why must they stop our fun!
     
  16. GhostWarrior
    Cold One

    GhostWarrior Member

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    aha! good catch :)
     

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