8th Ed. Glittering robe on mixed unit

[Pofadder]

Hey,

Would appreciate some input on how the spell, Glittering Robe, resolves on a Skrox unit. The skinks are eligible for the 5+ scaly skin save, but the Kroxigors are not, because they have a 4+ scaly skin save already.

Does this mean the spell can be cast on the unit and the skinks benefit but not the Kroxigors? Or does it resolve differently?

Thanks in advance.

 

[n810]

I believe it replaces their natural scaley scin save.

Ps. (Think it's in the FAQ)

 

[Dyvim Tvar]

You can certainly target the unit, and the skinks will certainly benefit, but the issue is the Krox. What about them?

This is not clearly addressed in the rules, nor is there an FAQ on point to my knowledge. The fundamental question it raises is what happens if a model is given the Scaly Skin rule from 2 different sources, and they have different values?

There is no rule saying that spell effects take precedence over the effects from other sources (old editions of Warhammer used to have a Magic v. Mundane rule that magic trumps, but no more). So I am not comfortable with the position that the spell effect automatically replaces the natural 4+ scaly skin on the Krox. At the same time, there is no rule saying that the better save controls, nor any rule saying that the caster gets to choose.

To me, this appears to be a situation of direct conflict between 2 different rules--one rule says the scaly skin save is 5+, and the other says 4+. And in the case of a direct conflict, you have to dice off to see which rule controls.

So the way I would play it is that each time you cast the spell, the skinks get a 5+ scaly skin, and you have to dice to see whether the Krox have a 4+ or a 5+.

 

[Scalenex]

Unless you are fighting an army with a lot of BS shooting (so one of the elves) it won't make a difference what the Kroxigors Scaly Skin is because the attacks will hit the Skinks.

Until reading this, I just thought it pure common sense. Skinks get Scaly Skin 5+, Kroxigors are no better or worse than before.

 

[Rettile]

scalenex, are you saying that shooting attacks which use a template only hit the skinks? o.o

 

[Scalenex]

I suppose I'm just used to template weapons without armor saves.

 

[Dyvim Tvar]

Ps. (Think it's in the FAQ)

I looked at both the main rulebook FAQ and the Lizard FAQ and didn't see anything.

Unless you are fighting an army with a lot of BS shooting (so one of the elves) it won't make a difference what the Kroxigors Scaly Skin is because the attacks will hit the Skinks.

Right--it only really matters against ranged attacks or if the skinks are mostly dead already and the Krox can't hide, in which case it's a lost cause ...

 

[n810]

Perhaps it was in the main rulebook under scaley scin, either that or the bit describing armorsaves, or the bit where it discribes what atributes can stack (armor+shield+mount, ect...).

 

[Stonecutter]

I think this is covered on page 66 under the rules regarding having a "special rule" multiple times. As per the FAQ,

"However, unless otherwise stated, a model gains no additional benefit from having the same special rule multiple times."

Scaly skin is a special rule. In the case of a skrox unit, the skinks only gain it from the spell and hence may combine it with their shield as per the SS description on page 75. Kroxigor upon which the spell is cast now have the SS special rule twice - once naturally and a 2nd time from the spell. Since SS doesn't stack, they merely take the most beneficial SS special rule that they are currently under. In the vast majority of cases, this will be their natural SS of 4+. However, had the unit been hit twice by successive castings of "plague of rust" by enemy wizards and then came under the glittering robe from their own wizard, they would then have a 5+ SS from the spell. Granted the last situation is unlikely but it was the only set of circumstances I could think of where the spell would take precedence!!

 

[Dyvim Tvar]

You've convinced me. The "no additional benefit" language you quote tells me that you ignore the effect of Glittering Robe since the Krox already have the Scaly Skin rule.

I'm not convinced that this means you automatically choose the better save though. In the case of a model with 6+ Scaly Skin, I think it could be argued that Glittering Robe has no effect on that model either since it already has the special rule.

 

[Stonecutter]

I would agree that selecting the best SS save is not explicitly stated. However, the approach would be consistent with the rules for ward saves where a model with more than one ward save simply uses the best save. (page 44).