GW News: SKAVEN VICTORY! #NewAoS

Yeah, I didn't think Ironjawz would get an update quite this big. I sympathize with you. Fyreslayers (and maybe KO) do feel rather forgotten. Is their day coming?

And Ironjawz aren't getting their own battletome, they are just getting a PDF update to Battletome: Orruk Warclans.

 

Ok, but still good to see them separate from the Orruk Warclans book.
I did not buy that one, so hopefully now I won't have to

Grrr, !mrahil

 

According to the article GW say it's meant to work with the existing Orc rules in the Warclans Battletome, as a Space Marine-style Codex Supplement, so it sounds like you're out of luck there. However GW also said that the Ironjawz supplement is free, so at least you're not shelling out money for two books.

 

• Space Marines are exactly as okay as I expected them to be. I do, however, really enjoyed the scouts.
  
• The new troll king is a hideous handsome fella, there are parts of him I enjoy and other parts that are just too overcomplicated. Hey, at least GSG got sommething else to make an actual full troll list.
  
• Amazing reimagining for 'Ardboyz, excellent new models for Ironjawz (with a Z), I they won the reveal until another Destruction came out of nowhere, Imo, but they're still hard as nails runner ups.
• HH was fine, but I cant get over how they pronounced "Dorito" Dreadnought.
• Gorgeus Gorgers. They just came in and flex the heck out of the entire review away. They just came and took the briefcase! AA glow up I really believe no one saw coming. It was just too much. Also, dogs. Best reveal.
  
• Excited for the vampire team. Here hoping this means TK are next!.
• Underworlds have litera Squid Game! Get it! But the sand out was that USA Daemonette.
  
• Another wasted slot for TOW. Stop revealing Bronies please!.
• I forgot that they were going to anounce a Primarch for HH so I was dumbfound for a moment and thought Fulgrim was for 40K! Silly me! Nice sculpt but I'm not touching that with a 6 meter pole.

 

I'm a little late to the party. Most of those reveals are pretty underwhelming in my eyes. The one notable exception is the Bretonnian Lady Elisse Duchaard. That model is absolutely splendid, resin or not. One of the very best models that GW has released/revealed in the last little while. I don't collect Bretonnia myself, but if I did, I'd pick that model up as soon as it was released. The paint job on the model only makes it look more impressive. Very soft and feminine.

A perfect fit for the Bretonnia army.

As for people being disappointed that it was the Bretonnians who got the reveal, of all the WHFB armies, they deserve it the most. Their last update was during 6th edition WHFB. Their extreme patience and dedication has finally been rewarded. Let them enjoy their moment, the TK will not be far behind. That said, GW are definitely going the route of the "slow drip" in terms of TOW reveals. Really playing that looooong game.



Thrugg: The Troggoth King...


...a sad substitute for the true Troll king, Throgg...

Have the Vampires really received three updated armies? That is strange on GW's part (even for GW).

A couple of the models in the team look pretty good, but overall I'm not impressed.

I think its probably because the Fyreslayers typically poll as the least favourite of AoS' mainline armies.

 

I certainly agree, it is a lovely model and a stellar update to the Fay Enchantress. I would also say it's the best female model GW have made so far, probably ever (newer than their older Damsel and Fay Enchantress models and far nicer than girl-power Sisters of Battle, Witch Elves and Escher Gangers). I really wish GW would make more feminine female models like this. My only misgivings were that it will be overpriced Forge World Resin and that it being the only reveal for TOW said goodbye to the last chance of it being released this year, the 40th anniversary of Warhammer Fantasy, the year it should have been released.

Meh, I'd take the former if he could be used to boost an underpowered Fantasy army through fan rules, over the latter which made an army that already had great potential for cheese into a veritable cheese emporium.

I was referring to Blood Bowl teams. The Shambling Undead, Necromantic Horror and now the Vampire teams are all from the same Vampire Counts faction, while Tomb Kings and Bretonnians aren't even represented in that game.

I don't play Blood Bowl, but I'm still not impressed with the lack of knights and Egyptian skeletons in it.

But then, in AoS one could say your hypothesis is correct, as Nighthaunt, Flesh-Eater Courts and Soulblight all had their origins in the Vampire Counts faction and I think are usable in combination with each other if one chooses Nagash or one of the Mortarchs as a leader or something.

Only because GW don't give them any new units to give them additional variety, only bloody unnamed foot hero models which is the one thing they have in spades

My boys the Fyreslayers are fast becoming the AoS Bretonnians - GW didn't release any stellar new models for the latter for two whole editions in a similar way.

If only they'd get their Elf-obsessed heads out of their arses and give the cooler Dwarf factions the respect they deserve, I wouldn't need to open a salt shop on here or elsewhere.

 

I'd put her in the top tier of female models alongside the likes of the Witch Elves and Vellas von Faine.

Better luck next year! I guess for those of you eagerly awaiting its release, this is a spot of bad news.

I was talking about the model itself. We all know that you dislike the Warriors of Chaos army rules and that you believe them to be overpowered cheese despite being a High Elves player yourself. And yes, I'm aware that you don't like to include the most OP High Elves units/items in your own personal lists, but Warriors of Chaos lists can be composed in the exact same manner.

My bad, I meant to write "team" but I'm so accustomed to writing army/armies that I typed it on autopilot.

Some new variety is greatly needed in the army. It's essentially one monster and a bunch of dudes that look nearly identical. A solid update would likely liven up the player base. That said, I'm sure that GW's market research has indicated to them that focusing on other armies is more profitable. I have a hard time believing that GW is avoiding them for any other reason other than a strictly financial one.

 

So kinda like they did in Warmaster then.

 

But the thing is, for as long as they avoid updating the army, the less profitable it'll get as less people play it because of its reduced support, and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy of GW deleting it because 'it's not profitable' and pissing off those players who liked the faction and had an army for it.

They've already done this in the past with Tomb Kings, Bretonnians, Genestealer Cults and Squats (and to a lesser extent Sisters during 3rd-7th Edition 40K), yet now they want to present the image of them supposedly learning from this by bringing these neglected armies back, so to go back on that by deleting a faction in one of their main games (and one that features a fair amount in Black Library novels and AoS fluff to boot) would undermine the work they've been doing to try and regain trust among their customer base.

I honestly don't think those rumours are likely. At the end of the year GW always release their Christmas bundles, and don't bother to release any really new stuff. As for the Tomb King dragon idea, Zombie Dragons and other skeletal monsters were always more of a Vampire thing, Tomb Kings are more focused on statues. Not to mention that Dragons have never really featured in any form of Egyptian mythology, and would look really out of place in a Tomb King army.

 

There is some truth in the self-fulfilling prophecy angle but that doesn't mean that all armies are inherently equal in terms of potential popularity. Some armies are simply more widely embraced by the consumer base regardless of release frequency or range size. If the Fyreslayers received more updates than all the other AoS factions, their popularity would undoubtedly increase but they still wouldn't be the most popular army.

I thought you were just joking but everyone is taking this seriously. Why would GW give the TK a dragon? How does that fit with the TK lore? Its inclusion would single handily break the wonderful ancient Egyptian aesthetic of the Tomb Kings.

I'd say I hope you're wrong, but as it doesn't effect Warhammer Proper (WHFB 8th), it means very little to me.

 

Yeah, I doubt they'd ever become truly popular since the focus on "Angry naked dwarf with a big axe" kind of limits the faction to a rather specific target audience. Which is also probably why they haven't had any interesting updates outside of their endless spells & their faction terrain. There's only so much you can do with fyreslayers before you start repeating yourself.

Honestly, Fyreslayers first need a lore-update to make their faction a bit more flexible so there's actual options for new units beyond the same foot hero.

 

Nowhere is the faction innately restricted to that description in lore. Indeed if it was then the Magmadroth wouldn't have been created as a unit because it helped stop the army from becoming exactly that.

If you start playing that game then you can say that Flesh-Eater Courts could be similarly restricted to 'Deluded flesh-eating Ghouls', Kharadron as 'Dwarfs in diving suits' or Daughters of Khaine as 'angry naked Elf lesbians', yet GW have developed the latter two beyond their starting range (and may well do the same with the former with their upcoming model update). Exactly the same thing is possible with Fyreslayers, they just need someone who has the creativity to think of the ideas for them.

There are many things that can be done with the Fyreslayer army as I have said several times before, particularly if you look at the Warhammer Fantasy Dwarfs for inspiration, but as the ultimate Fyreslayer critic you're blind to using a bit of imagination with them.

• Fyreslayers have already broken the Dwarf mould by being allowed to have mounted units in the form of the Magmadroth, so one could easily bring out a cavalry unit riding either smaller Magmadroths or another creature that inhabits volcanic wasteland. Hell even a flying cavalry unit, fulfilling a role akin to Dwarf Gyrocopters and Gyrobombers (which will likely be booted out of AoS at some point when they can concoct some new Dispossessed units for Cities and move the classic Dwarf stuff to TOW) could be a second option.
• Fyreslayers are also particularly archaic compared to either the standard Dwarfs or the Kharadron, so a chariot unit could be introduced, again pulled by a new volcanic creature.
• Fyreslayers like their statues of Slayer heroes of old (another trait shared by the standard Dwarfs), so a Monstrous Infantry unit of slayer statues, activated by incantations bound to Ur-Gold, would be a cool thing to have.
• Fyreslayers have limited shooting, but that which they do have is static or slow-moving, so it would not be unreasonable to suggest that they could use a couple of conventional artillery pieces, again like the standard Dwarfs. The obvious choices are reinventions of the Flame Cannon, a classic Dwarf war machine that was booted out of AoS long ago, and Malakai Makaisson's Goblin Hewer (an artillery piece designed for Slayer armies in the 6th Edition Warhammer Fantasy Storm of Chaos book which continually threw throwing axes for those who didn't know, particularly appropriate for the Fyreslayers who already use conventional throwing axes). I could also see a machine that sprays toxic volcanic gases in the direction of the foe.
• Fyreslayers are particularly devoted to their religion, a lot more so than even the standard Dwarfs, so a shrine unit dedicated to Grimnir would make a striking centrepiece.
• Fyreslayers are also unusually willing to experiment with magic through their Prayers, so a unit of minor Zharrgrim Priests is an option.
• Female Fyreslayers is a concept often bandied about by the AoS community, so a unit or two of buxom, minimally-clothed Dwarf women can add extra variety, perhaps featuring as the Priest unit mentioned above or as the riders/crew of one or more of the cavalry or chariot units.

So you see, a lot could be done with the army, if only GW could stop Elf-hugging for a moment and realise that Dwarfs are cooler.

 

The Khemric Titan is too big for a standard Fantasy game, much bigger than standard Dragons, and it was restricted to Monstrous Arcanum for good reason back in 8th. While it's an interesting unit and very fitting for Tomb Kings, I wouldn't want to see it enter TOW, it would just spread the continuing Lord of War "mine's bigger" mess to it.

I could see a winged cobra Wadjet statue though, a larger cousin of the Necroserpents the size of a Necrosphinx or bigger and potentially on an Arachnarok-size base, but smaller than a Khemric Titan.

I'd be interested to know how you obtained such a connection...

That's only what they fear from the 'new' GW's 40K/AoS-centric point of view, and let's be honest, GW have never been the best at reading what their customer base want and don't want. People have wanted more than anything for Fantasy to be brought back ever since GW stupidly destroyed it, particularly with the popularity of the Total War trilogy for it bringing ever increasing numbers of fans to the community.

It's ironic that GW killed it off thinking that it was never going to be profitable again, when all it needed was for Total War to bump the potential fanbase back up to size, and now that it has, TOW has the chance to really benefit from that, so long as they maintain faith in it and give what the players want, i.e. affordable and easy ways to get into and enjoy the game.

I certainly can't see it becoming more niche than the Horus Heresy or even Blood Bowl for example. Horus Heresy is innately throttled by its lack of variety in units and appeals only to uber die-hard Space Marine fanboys (I bet Matt Ward plays Ultramarines in it ), and Blood Bowl has a particularly weird mix of dark, silly and campy aspects that is innately avant-garde in taste.

Warhammer Fantasy was the game that started it all, and the only reason Games Workshop and Warhammer rose to prominence at all was because of Fantasy's success - if it had failed, there would have been no 40K, no AoS or anything else, and GW would have faded away into history as a failed business venture long ago. Fantasy is still beloved across the world, and TOW is GW's one chance of fixing the biggest mistake they ever made back in 2015. Everyone's behind it, everyone wants it, we just want GW to DO IT! And do it right!

 

Magmadroths are the literal only exception.
But even that GW screwed up by having the "juveniles" be ridden by runesons, as opposed to having them be something properly distinct.

All of those have more flexible themes than Fyreslayers (in its current form)

FEC are deluded into thinking they are noble knights, you could make a FEC equivalent of every single CoS unit, from the lowest infantry man to the most regal knight, without it breaking the theme.
KO look very similar visually due to their diving suits, but they have a technology theme which makes it easy to invent new units if need be.

You don't really need much more than 1 or 2 lines to explain a new unit for these two.

E.g. adding FEC cavalry is trivial, all you need is to put some ghouls on some kind of undead beast that's roughly horse-sized and write 1 line of text explaining they think they're noble knights charging into the enemy. That's it. Want heavy cavalry? Slab some rags, a skull helmet or some rusted armour on them and give them an actual weapon to hold. Light cavalry representing lesser squires? Have them be mostly naked wielding bone clubs. Want a trumpeter who signals to a noble's hunting party where the prey is? Stick a varghulf on a horse and say the FEC thinks it's shrieks represent trumpets. And you have precedent for all of this, as the FEC riding zombie dragons and terrorgheist literally use a similar explenation of them thinking they are regal kings riding majestic warbeasts.

FEC have a pretty strong theme overall. GW just doesn't do much with them, which is a shame as they're the only vaguely interesting undead faction that doesn't just have to blindly follow Nagash.

DoK are indeed similarly one-note as the Fyreslayers, but they at least have some mutations with snake people & winged people in their ranks. Which at least gives them something to work with as they can always introduce new snake-based nonsense.

O there's things you can do.
But most of them will require somewhat of a retcon to not make it feel somewhat forced.
E.g. Other vulcanic creatures could work, but raises the question why they are suddenly beastmasters, since currently they pretty much exclusivly raise magmadroths. Similarly, any new technology, like a chariot or artillery piece, would beg the question where they got that from as currently they basicly don't seem to use any technology besides axes.

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm just saying that it requires a lot more lore to introduce a truly new unit compared to other factions.

And yeah, GW is failing to use the potential Fyreslayers have. But if they want to use that potential, they'll first need to open up the lore a bit to actually allow for these different options. And that would be a pretty major release, similar to our update, or what's currently happening with CoS.

So as long as it's just minor updates, I fear you're stuck with your angry naked dwarf footheroes. There simply isn't much you can easily introduce in a minor release like that for fyreslayers.

Carefull with that monkey's paw

 

Kharadron are far more unique and interesting than the Fyreslayers:

• the big ships are interesting and can be endlessly varied and reinvented by sculptors
• the central concept of a sky-based naval civilization is completely unlike anything else in AoS
• you can create a bunch of different looking "diving suits" but a naked dwarf is a naked dwarf.
• KO's technology opens up the possibility of interesting new units that blend seamlessly into the existing army

I guess more people prefer angry naked Elf lesbians over naked Dwarf dudes!

+1

 

yes... Yes... YES... YEEEESSS!

Now that would be awesome (and conveniently useful for those of us loyal to 8th edition).

Tell him (her?) that the NIGHTBRINGER needs a Chaos War Mammoth!

 

I feel like a Khemric Titan would lie somewhere in the ballpark of a War Mammoth in terms of size. So what are thinking for the smaller version? Arachnarok Spider sized?