GW News: SKAVEN VICTORY! #NewAoS

The issue is that that sorta thing only really happens when a company does something truly extreme (or in the case of Bud, when something gets blown so far out of proportion it just gets silly. That was literally over a single six-pack.).

In most cases when given the choice between "pay an inflated, but still 'affordable' amount of money" or "don't buy the thing", the average person is going to grumble and complain, but still buy thing. Overpaying is simply less annoying than not buying the thing.

And that's assuming they're even noticing the pricehikes. Less engaged players than people like us, which is like 90% of the playerbase , might simply never notice since they rarely buy a new battletome to begin with. At the same time, they can still be effective ambassadors for the game by playing the occasional game with a younger family member or something.

So yeah, 99% of the playerbase isn't going to "vote" any time soon, and the remaining 1% simply doesn't have enough voting power to affect things.
Which is why calls for people to "vote with their money" rarely achieve anything.

I mean, most of the Votann isn't super dwarf-ey, aside from the runes the only dwarf-ey thing about them is that they're short. Especially the generic troops aren't that different from generic humans.

But yeah, they've gotten a lot of ugly faces.

 

"You wanna piece of me, boy?"

"Gimme somethin' to shoot."

"Go, go, go!"

Well, technically it's a Dwarf Terran Marine , but yes at least it isn't Primaris

 

I'd take a shiny new Vampire over that guy any day.

Perhaps best left for another thread.

Then they deserve the fate that befalls them. I have no remorse for the self inflicted wounds of the foolish.

Well, you only have one of two options:

• bend over and take it up the a$%
• apply what little influence you have at your disposal and vote with your wallet

The choice is yours.

 

Nah, it's not that interesting to discuss. The three sentences we spend on that "scandal" is already more attention than it deserves.

I mean, sure, you can try, maybe you'll get lucky .
But more often than not you'll just get this situation:

Spoiler

 

Fair enough. It's been talked to death anyways. Nevertheless, a hard (multi-billion dollar) lesson was learned.

The consumers hold ALL the power (especially in terms of a non-essential luxury hobby), but only if they come together. Unfortunately, most consumers are sheep. Still, a slim chance is better than no chance at all. At worst, I can sit back and enjoy watching sheep lemming their way off the side of a cliff. "A fool and his money are soon parted".

In the end though, an actual victory (in terms of GW reforming their ways), is not even necessary. I won't be the one to waste my money on data cards that are useless three months later. I seldom pay full retail price for models. I don't jump blindly into new GW games when I consistently see them implementing unscrupulous practices. Even if the war is unwinnable, individual battles are easily captured. Let the others be the casualties of the war.

Plus, there are always other options in terms of models:

• focusing on models you already own (the pile of shame) instead of chasing every new and shiny thing that GW craps out
  
• secondary market
• third party models
• recasts
• and sometime in the not too distant future, a "pirate bay's" worth of scanned stl files for 3d printing

That doesn't mean that I will never buy anything direct from GW, just less... much less. If Games Workshop had not broken my trust, I would have undoubtedly jumped on board with the upcoming TOW game. Now, I'm perfectly happy to stick with 8th edition Warhammer Proper.


At the end of the day, your proposed helpless solution of doing nothing at all will only make things worse. At what point do you stand up and say NO? You have to give companies a reality check every now and again. The fans did it with Xbox years back, surely wargamers can scrape themselves together and at least approximate their counterparts' intelligence/resolve.

 

For clarity; I'm not saying you should buy whatever nonsense companies push at whatever absurdly high price they ask. You'll have to decide for yourself if you think it's worth the money or if there are viable alternatives for you.

I'm just saying that you shouldn't expect any chance. It's simply far too easy for companies to keep extorting customers, while it is extremely difficult for consumers to set up an even remotely effective boycot.

For example, take that bud story, it only got the attention it did due to Fox & friends talking about it, significantly increasing its visibility. If they had ignored it, it would have died a silent dead somewhere in the dark corners of the internet with most people blissfully unaware of it. Arguably this was less a matter of consumers v.s. bud, and more a matter of Fox & friends v.s. bud.

Anyways, let's get back to a more interesting topic; are there any cool new reviews yet?

 

The chance is small, but small is better than nothing. You miss one hundred percent of the shots you don't take. Also, with the advancement of the internet and social media, people are no longer isolated and can come together to form a unified voice. The backlash against Star Wars started at a pretty grass roots level. Disgruntled and betrayed fans started to support small(ish) YouTube channels who in term unified more people to collectively step up to fight back against Disney. The Fandom Menace was born. Now Star Wars and the MCU are in a downward spiral. Disney has lost half of its stock value in the last few years and are losing billions on Disney+. They're not dead, but they are reeling. And Disney is a million times more powerful than Games Workshop.

I don't see the point of embracing a mindset of powerlessness and hopelessness.

 

O sure, it can always happen.
People just tend to forget that companies need to take things reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally far before they cross those lines of no return when it comes to the more benigne anti-consumer practises.

The only real exception is when a powerfull third party steps in. If it gets picked up by the (local) news or a political party the succesrate is a lot higher. But usually that only happens when it's a genuine issue, like a company dumping toxic waste in the local river or when products are so terrible they need to be recalled cuz they're covered in toxic paint or something, not when it's a company selling their plastic toys at an inflated prize .

 

I would agree...

True, but it does happen... and if it happened before, it can happen again!

If we expand @Canas 's viewpoint beyond the lens of financial boycotts, then it doesn't make sense to vote in political elections either, as the chance of your single vote swinging the election is even lower than that of forcing change from GW via voting with your wallet.

In the end, no matter no matter how minute, every vote counts. Whether that vote be political or financial. If everyone adopts a powerless stance, then nobody will ever come together and GW has free reign to do what they like.

Come to think of it, @Canas could be a GW plant. He does seem to spend the near entirety of his forum interactions focused on upcoming news/releases/rumors...

Spoiler: and not much anything else

Agreed... and we have to remind them of that fact every now and again.

A lot of YouTube channels pull greater viewing numbers than local news.

That's what makes them particularly vulnerable... their product is not a necessity. You need food. You need shelter. Most people need gasoline. But you don't really need GW's latest offering... I'm sure all but the most industrious and diligent of us have a pile of shame we could work on in the mean time.

 

I am excited about TOW but it has little to do with what people refer to as “releases”. The physical models I am not too fussed about which is where half the stir is coming from.

since getting a 3D printer my outlook on buying miniatures from hobby companies has changed drastically.

I just want to get my grubby little hands on a rulebook, some counters, templates, cards or whatever is required to play the game. The physical bits and bobs - those are the things I look forward to.

 

The difference with an election is that you actually get a vote with some meaningfull power attached to it (or well.. assuming you have a halfway functional voting system.... mileage may vary depending on the country...)
"Voting with your wallet" has no power because GW (or well any company really..) already did a market analysis and determined that they'd lose some customers if they raise prizes, but would still make more money overal. They already accounted for your "vote" and deemed it an acceptable loss. Hence your "vote" never actually had any power to begin with as it was already accounted for in their prize-calculations to begin wtih.

I can't help it it's one of the more interesting threads to be in.

What is important isn't number of views. It's who views it.
Locals, and especially local authourities, pay attention to the local news, so if they report on a local scandal it's a significant signal boost for the problem cuz it will reach the relevant people who may still be unaware. This helps build momentum for a cause.

In contrast, youtube channels, especially channels that focus on some niche subject like a hobby or a fandom, are mostly just echo-chambers of people who are already pretty involved in that particular niche. So their videos mostly reach people who are already pretty up to date on the subject anyway. Unless the video goes viral and goes outside of the usual bubble it's unlikely to build much momentum.

Sure, noone needs them.
But it also means noone truly cares about them overcharging, noone is going to jump on the barricades over expensive toys.
Which allows them to get away with it more easily, as the consequences for getting it wrong are pretty minor since noone's going to riot over some toys being overpriced.

 

Voting in elections: best case scenario, your vote is just one among many millions... essentially powerless. Worse case scenario, you have something like the US electoral college, and you don't live in a "purple" state... your vote is utterly meaningless.

Companies do market research, but that research in not absolute or without error. Companies f%$k up all the time and lose huge sums of money. They need your money. If that flow of money slows down enough, corporate heads start getting lopped off.

Judging by that posting history the rumour threads are the only interesting threads to be in.

Are you saying that actually engaging in the tactical aspect of the game, artistic aspect of the game or the lore aspect of the game offer no meaningful interest as compared to "what can I buy next?"

That's an outdated viewpoint. Legacy media is dying.

Nor do they have to. All they have to do is stop buying (or even buy less) for a given period of time. Easily achievable.

Game changer! I wonder how 3d printing will affect the likes of GW over the next couple of decades.

 

Even "meaningless" votes tend to have tangible effect due to the fact that over time they shift politicians/parties on particular topics in certain directions as they try to solidify their support. Even in ridiculous systems like the US's electoral college. Because while you're not going to achieve anything as dramatic as to shift from a red state to a blue state, every so often you'll see "red" politicians adopting a handfull of weirdly "blue" policies, because it allows them just enough support to beat the other "red" option

You have noticed that big companies are capable of losing absurd amounts of money and screw up projects in wild and innovative ways all of the time without ever suffering any real consequences right? Sure the occasional CEO gets kicked out, and they might do a round of lay-offs to make the books look pretty again (hell, they might do a round of lay-offs anyway), but very rarely will you see any actual change, even if the company is deep in the red. Hell, in certain cases they destroy a project on purpose cuz it gives weird tax breaks.

Weirdly enough these threads are rarely actually about "what can I buy" and more about "well this release could be better" or "damn it, it's elves again".

Anyway, it's just one of the more active threads with more interesting conversations. If you want to see my models you can find a thread for that in my signature, I just don't paint as much anymore since I've run out of space and need the money for a bigger house.
I was fairly active on the tactics threads, but after having essentially the same discussion 50 times it gets a bit boring.
Lore threads I've never been particularly active in.

They've been predicting that for decades now.
Meanwhile the same old media continues to exist, and has simply added a digital component.

Yeah, but it's not going to happen, cuz again, people don't really care if toys becomes a luxury product. Especially when the toy wasn't ever cheap to begin with, like with GW products.

Less than you'd expect, more than GW would want.

 

No doubt, but a singular vote among millions is still insignificant. So an insignificant push towards what could possibly amount to a very small effect.

Keep in mind, my argument is not that you shouldn't vote, only that it is equal to or less effective than voting with your wallet. As I said before, every vote counts, weather political or financial.

I have seen companies shrug off major financial blunders, but eventually it catches up to them if they don't change course. Disney (or even Hollywood in general) is a prime example of this, as they've started to bleed a lot of money. I believe that the tide will turn soon.

I've also seen companies change course rapidly. Microsoft did this with their Xbox One when they announced that it will require a constant internet connect and games can't be shared. They got blasted by the fans and reversed their decision before the console was even released. Another example is the Sonic the Hedgehog movie that got absolutely roasted by the fanbase for their CGI depiction of Sonic. The company listened and redid the animation throughout the entire movie to match the fans' expectations, thus saving themselves from what would have been a huge box office flop.

More rarely, I've also seen a company implode near instanteously when G4 destroyed itself with Frosk's woke tirade and their subsequent trashing of the fans.

As for GW, they very much cater to the "voting with your wallet" principle. Why do you think there are so many SM/Primaris releases? If those lines suddenly stopped selling well, GW would transition to whatever was more popular. You see, even now, people are voting with their wallets, it just not may not be the vote we might be hoping for. As the video pointed out, GW are still selling out most of their new releases, so they have no incentive to change.

If something brings in more money, GW will do more of. If something brings in less money (or loses money!), GW will do less of it. It's not rocket science.

The social media replacement hasn't even been around for decades. It just got big recently. You think CNN has the same reach as they did 10 years ago?

And if "new age" social media is so powerless against legacy media, then why did the social media companies (often pushed by the government) work so hard to actively silence opinions they didn't want spread (Covid vaccines, 2020 US presidential elections, etc.)? The answer is because it is immensely powerful. A single podcaster like Joe Rogan has a larger reach than a major company like CNN. CNN is bleeding revenue while Rogan is making bank. That would have been something completely unimaginable two decades back.

Are you talking about the general public at large? Of course they won't care, but they don't buy the stuff anyways, so they don't have a vote. I'm sure many wargamers do care, and if enough of them come together, they would force change out of GW.

I don't think any of us know. Change is in the air though and you can see the beginnings of it right here in real time:

Need money to buy a bigger house?... then these boycotts I speak of, might just be useful to you in more ways than one!

Didn't the Serapon just get a new book somewhat recently? Is AoS that tactically weak that after only a few months of discussion, the strategy/tactical discussions have completely dried up to the point of endless repetition? More than a decade after the release of WHFB 8th edition, we've explored new and interesting topics. Either dissecting things from a different angle or in greater depth. I get that the two games are not even remotely comparable in terms of tactical depth, but you're really painting your game in a bad light.

At least we agree on one thing!

 

I’ve never seen people so heated and engaged on any GW announcement than TOW.

I think it’s a testament to people’s passion, and I firmly believe that even the grumblers are lashing out because they are scared that GW might do something right. Even if you say you aren’t fussed, there’s part of you deep down that wants to be proven wrong.

As far as the games potential popularity, the Bretronnian reveal at NOVA 23 got the most comments and likes than any of the others by quite some margin. This is a good sign.

 

I guess you weren't around for the End Times / AoS fiasco.

It helps that the Bretonnia Damsel was the nicest sculpted model in the reveal. I don't play Bretonnia and I'm 99% sure I won't be playing TOW, but I was still mighty impressed by that model.

 

Ha admittedly I wasn’t but I should have prefaced it with “since the release of AOS”