8th Ed. Help against Ogre armies

[Poqenichi]

Hey guys, once my friend gets his army sorted, we're gonna have a battle and i've never come up against an ogre army before, and I just wondered if anyone has any success, or failures against them and any advice that could help towards taking them down, we're gonna gonna use the points cap on a lords choice to give us a bit more freedom, but i'm not sure which army to take with me, I was thinking either:

Kroq-Gar (635 points)

Scar-Vet (w/ Piranha blade, light armour and shield) 128 points
Skink priest Level 2 w/ Rod of the storm (125 points)

20 x Saurus warriors w/full command (248 points)
20 x Skink skirmishers (10 w/blowpipe, 10 w/shield & jav) 150 points
16 x skinks w/ 2 kroxigors (195 points)
8 x Cold on cavalry w/full command (330 points)

6 x chameleon skinks (72 points)

Salamander hunting pack with 4 handlers (80 points)

Total points, 1,963

OR

Slann mage priest with, rumination, soul of stone and the becalming cognition. Along with cupped hands and divine plaque of protection (450 points)

Skink priest Level 2 w/ Rod of the storm (125 points)
Chakax (335 points)

20 x Saurus warriors w/full command (248 points)
15 x Saurus warriors (165 points)
20 x Skink skirmishers (10 w/blowpipe, 10 w/shield & jav) 150 points
16 x skinks w/ 2 kroxigors (195 points)

14 x Temple guard w/ standard (238 points)
6 x chameleon skinks (72 points)

Salamander hunting pack with 4 handlers (80 points)

Total points, 2,058 (we're allowing a little leigh way)

What do you guys think, what could be improved, how would you guys go about this?

 

[n810]

Samanders are least effective against ogres,
since they have high toughness 3 wounds and little armor,
also you have to kill a whole ogre to cause a panic test.

You are probaly better off taking more skinks instead.
ogres realy don't like volies of poisoned projectiles.

 

[skillfull_dan]

I agree with n810.

Skirmishers and chameleons with poison are your best friend. Also deep units of skrox (take extra skinks to keep steadfast) are immune to stomp attacks and the krox greatweapons will cut up ironguts

I like your second list better, Kroq Gar atrracts cannon balls like a magnet. I would add more skinks and temple guard to it though, drop the rod of storm since you already have a level 4 and a level 2 in 2000 points. I feel like soul of stone is unneeded but if it fits your play style then rock out man. I also have never used chakax, he seems cool but very pricey.

 

[david l]

What points level are you playing? Your lists added up to 95 points different is not "a little lee way" in my opinion. And you're allowing any point total on lords so you can afford Kroq-gar? How friendly/soft are you trying to be, and how tough/nasty or soft/squishy will your opponent's army be? How model limited are the two of you?


Generally taking monsters (Carnosaur / Kroq-gar) against Ogres is a terrible idea. They have the most accurate cannons in the game to kill the monsters, and your monsters are less valuable in combat because ogres cannot be thunderstomped. Kroq-gar himself just isn't very good, especially when not taking massive numbers of Saurus cavalry, and I think a regular Carnosaur Oldblood would be clearly better here. But again, I'd skip the Carnosaur, especially against Ogres.

In the second list, why take Chakkax? Ogres should be content to avoid challenges with him and let their rank-and-file kill him in a round or two.

Scar-Vet (w/ Piranha blade, light armour and shield) 128 points

Piranha blade should have some use against Ogres, but this guy is far too fragile to fight ogres. 3+ armour save is reduced to 6+ by Ironguts, which means he dies the first round of combat.

Skink priest Level 2 w/ Rod of the storm (125 points)

Why do you like Rod of the Storm? To me the spell it casts is not worth throwing 3 dice at with no casting bonus.

20 x Saurus warriors w/full command

Too small. I'd want at least 30 against Ogres. The size 15 unit in the second list seems really bad - I'm not sure they'd be Steadfast for even a single round.

16 x skinks w/ 2 kroxigors (195 points)

Also kinda small. Skinks die fast, and I can see these losing Steadfast in round 2.

8 x Cold on cavalry w/full command (330 points)

I don't see the value to cavalry against Ogres. Ogres go through the armour pretty easily and the extra charge distance is unlikely to be decisive. Maybe a minimum cost you to try and chase down the cannons or monsters, but this unit is too expensive for too little extra value.


In the Slann list, I assume a Slann in TG is running Life. But I would never take Life with only 4 spells, and Soul of Stone with Life makes little sense. Without Life, I think size 14 TG is more a death trap than a bodyguard.

Generally a stronger list would have fewer points in characters and bigger units. Or better characters (several mounted scar-vets).

 

[Poqenichi]

david l
We're playing a 2000 point game, allowing up to 5% point spillage, it's more of a friendly game rather than aiming to absolutely destroy him.

I'm using Chakax in my TG because generally I have had good fortune using him, with having him and a slann in the TG unit, the unit becomes unbreakable, but one thing i've never quite figured out, 2 handed weapons always strike last however with the eternity chamber key, it allows him to strike first, which rule overrules which?

I've had good fortune generally using the rod of the storm, so I generally run with it.

Yeah I was thinking of running a 40 strong saurus unit, and dropping the salamander unit, but I was thinking trying this way, but with the advice here it would be better to run more saurus.

Yeah the only problem I have at the moment, I think i only have about 45 skinks based up, with 16 or so on sprues still (need to buy more bases) and just using this unit as a roadblock to try and slow them down while the krox try and put a dent in them.

Yeah, usually I run a life slann with that set up, but ogres have little or no magic do they? So i would swap becalming cognition with focus of mystery.


From the advice here, I would drop the salamander unit, add more skinks into the mix, I might possibly drop the rod and i'm still thinking about Chakax, whether to drop him or not, I enjoy playing with him and he's worked before, but never came up against an ogre army before. I'll go for the 2nd list out of the two.

Also if I was to drop Chakax, I would probably run Oxyotl in my chameleon skink unit.

 

[n810]

https://docs.google.com/file/d/1MH6...F23s4y2MobUDRdKCiX6Nmjiuce4P/edit?usp=sharing
(Lizardmen FAQ) <--- Chakax ruling