Any chance of some lizardmen army help, I’ve been collecting the army for a number of years now but only recently have begun to play. As it stands I’ve nearly completed painting a 1500 point army and have the models to take my list up to 2500 (beyond that even). In essence I have two questions, is the following list a good all comers to sink my teeth into the game. I do have mini’s to change the list up and will do so, it’s just that it takes me a long time to paint an army that when I build my models up to 2500, If can stay focused on painting and getting a fully complete army down on the table top I would be a happy gamer. The list at 2500: Lord: Slann – Channeling Staff, Soul of Stone, Harmonic Convergence, Wandering Deliberations, BsB Hero’s: Scar Vet – Cold One, Charmed Shield, Dawnstone, LA, Halberd Scar Vet – Warrior Bane, Enchanted Shield, Crown of Command Skink Chief – Terradon, LA, Javelin, Shield Skink Priest – Dispell Scroll Core: 35 Saurus Warriors – Spears, Full Command 3 x 10 Skink Skirmishers Special: 20 Temple Guard – Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame 2 x 5 Chameleon Skinks Bastiladon – Solar Engine Rare: Ancient Stegadon – Sharpened Horns 2 Salamanders The above comes out to a clean 2500 on the nose. I took wandering deliberations because I want the slann to ride in the temple guard. I figure with this set up I maximise the number of spells I can cast a turn while mitigating the potential to blow up the temple guard unit. Also took soul of stone to help protect the temple guard. I like the idea of spamming lots of low cast spells. Also I figure it forces me to pay particular attention to the other phases of the game as I have no mega spells to nuke the table with. The bound spell on the bastiladon I don’t expect to get off every turn; however, I figure I can burn some dispel dice with it or throw it into the rotation for some spell phase shenanigans. As for the skink priest he is a scroll caddy first and spell caster second. I don’t think I will go with wildform, preferring the low cast value of ice shard, I also like the idea of potentially getting comet or chain lightning with him. Finally with respect to my magic phase, I do like wandering deliberations for the potential to help mitigate the saurus low WS. I have access to 3 spells that lower a targets WS (including the skink priest). All three are relatively low cast values for the slann. Also with all the magic missile attacks I will be casting, the opponent really has a rough time determining what to dispel. With respect to the core it comes out to exactly 625 hitting my min core. I’m wondering if I have enough Temple Guard. Also I figure I may be spending too many points on hero’s. So is this a decent list? The second question I have for everyone is how I can change/expand the list using models I already own. They include: -Plastic Carnasaur -15 more Saurus -3 plastic terradons and 3 metal ones -16 Cold One Riders (not including the scar vet above) -4 more skinks Also, I have a 200 dollar store credit at my local GW that I can draw upon to add models to my collection. I’ve been thinking about getting some more temple guard and skinks. Another option is to pick up 6 Krox models with skinks. Thing about that 200 dollar credit is that I have not necessarily devoted it to the lizardmen. If the above list is solid enough I may put the credit to one of my three 40k armies or even start up a small chaos warrior warband. Starting up the new army is very tempting as I would like to have 2 fantasy armies in my possession so when my kids are old enough I can play some games at home. The only problem with this though is that I would have another project that would potentially stall out my progression with the lizardmen lol. So if you made it through this wall of text thank you. Any advice or comments would be greatly appreciated. p.s. One final question: How would you use the above models to build an army with a loremaster high magic slann. Really would like to try that lore out as well.
I would definitely add in more temple guard if you are able. Drop the flying skink chief and/or the Bastiladon to fit them in. 20 is really small for 8th edition, and the flaming banner will cause you problems against some things, such as the WoC DP. Temple guard are one of the units in your army that will be able to deal with it in combat (though it will take some rounds). The list should do fine vs most armies, just the low TG might be a huge issue for you sometimes. Assuming you don't want to change the character set up (exception of the skink chief), I would go: Slann Scar Vet Scar Vet Skink Priest ~36 Saurus 3x10 skirmish skinks 2x5 chameleons 26-36 TG with Razor Standard Ancient Steg with Sharpened Horns 2-3 Salamanders split into 2 units. Baically, drop the Chief for another Salamander, and the Bastiladon for more TG. For loremaster High magic, just swap them. It's 5 points that you should be able to clean up somewhere
Thanks for the reply man. If I were to pick up 2 more temple guard boxes is there any merit to running two blocks of 20 of them in my army and make the slann a lone lore master? Also is my core set up decent? I was planning to put the crown of command scar vet in the big block of saurus and run the unit 6 x 6. Another question, if I were to remove the temple guard all together and replace them with a cold one bus would that unit work with the way my core is set up. Wondering if the bus works best with a skink cloud in place of the block of saurus. If so I would be looking at adding some more skinks to my army. I've been really scouring the forum lately to help come to grips on the new lizardmen army. Having trouble finding info on how to run a cold one bus list though. I think I'm in the minority but I really dig the lizardmen cold one models. Thanks again for the feedback.
I wouldn't run TG in units of less than 26, and if you are going to run them, bunker the slann. Stubborn is amazing, and with Soul of Stone, miscasts aren't a huge risk, especially if you put the Slann on the side of the unit like so: (T=TG, S=Slann) Front T T T T T T T T T T S S T T T T S S T T T T T T T T T T T T Soul of Stone is the only upgrade that imo is mandatory on the Slann. Don't underestimate how strong adjusting miscasts by 1 is. It cuts the chance of losing levels or losing the slann outright in half, and you can swap from the #7 result (adjacent models are hit), to the #8-9 result (models on the same side that can channel suffer a strength 6 hit), which can significantly reduce temple guard losses from miscasts. And I wouldn't suggest running more than 1 unit of Temple guard unless you are going for an MSU style, but then, you would be better served by Kroxigor, Cold Ones, and stegs I am not particularly a fan of Cold ones, but if you want to run them they are fine. units of 6-8 as flankers is fine, or a larger unit for a cold one bus. For a cold one list, you can do something like: 2500 Pts - Lizardmen Roster 1 Slann Mage-Priest (Battle Standard Bearer) Ironcurse Icon Standard of Discipline Soul of Stone Lore of Beasts 1 Saurus Oldblood Great Weapon Cold One (Causes Fear; Immune to Psychology; Stupid) Armour of Destiny Dawnstone 1 Skink Priest Lvl 2 Cube of Darkness The Lore of Beasts 1 Saurus Scar-Veteran Great Weapon Cold One (Causes Fear; Immune to Psychology; Stupid) Armour of Fortune The Other Trickster's Shard 1 Saurus Scar-Veteran Light Armor Great Weapon Cold One (Causes Fear; Immune to Psychology; Stupid) Charmed Shield Talisman of Preservation 1 Saurus Scar-Veteran LA GW Cold One (Causes Fear; Immune to Psychology; Stupid) Dragonhelm Talisman of Endurance 35 Saurus Warriors Full cmd 3x10 Skink Skirmishers (Prefer 3x10 Cohort + 1 skirmish, but it is up to preference/model count) 11 Cold One Riders Full CMD 2x5 Chameleon Skinks 1 Salamander Hunting Pack 1 Salamander Hunting Pack Skink Cloud is probably more effective than having a saurus block, but you want at least 1 ranked unit, and Saurus tend to be more effective than Skrox currently.
I think the list is pretty solid, but should recommend to add some extra templeguard! 26 works fine! Since i have soul of stone, i suffer much less casualities by miscasts, so i almost would like to say: TAKE THAT AWESOME STONE! Loremastery is very good, you could take highmagic or signatures, whatever you like, both are good! Never played with terradon chiefs in last edition, neither did i in this edition, but the potential power of these lone characters with an egg of quango is amazing, they can bring down monsters easily or blocks of archers.. You should try a ripperdactyl, i tried that before! Worked perfect, till you meet savageorc armies then it could be a mistake to take one!^^ The rest seems really good!
I probably wouldn't bother with the bastiladon, I also use deliberations and I find that with that many spells to be casting it usually sits there and do nothing unless your planning on one dicing it to waste dispel dice
Agreed with that, you have fireball!;D and you don't use it for the -1WS and BS because that is only when you cast and he charges the next turn if i am right!
Thank you for all the replies. I've a couple games now under my belt and have a little better understanding how the game works (still need to get my head around declaring assaults first though). Last game my slann managed to wreck my temple guard unit even though I had the soul of stone. I did not try placing him on the side though and will next time I play. The block of saurus should be able to protect the weak flank of the temple guard I suspect. My main opponent is skaven and in both games his magic phase really did a number on me. I'm thinking that I want to focus my army on shutting down the opponents magic phase. I've made a list then at 2500 hundred points using the changes you guys suggested and also focusing on magic defence. One thing though, I've not opted for a bsb, figuring with the crown of command my 2 big stubborn blocks with cold blooded might suffice without the banner. 2500 points Lord: Slann - channeling staff, soul of stone, becalming, harmonic Old Blood - GW, LA, CO, Talisman of Preservation Heroes: Scar Vet - Warrior Bane, Enchanted Shield, Crown of Command Skink Priest - Cube Skink Priest - Dispel Scroll Core: 35 Saurus Full Command - Spears 3 x 10 Skirmishers Special: 26 Temple Guard - Full Command 2 x 5 Chamo Skinks Rare: Ancient Stegadon - Sharpened Horns 2 Salamanders With two games under my belt (at 1500 points) the MVP's so far have been my skink skirmishers and my ancient stegadon. So are the changes for the better? I'm wondering if I'm putting too many points into magic defence. Also with the temple guard and the crown of command do I need a bsb. I can always swap out a discipline on the slann for the bsb.
Well i read that your main enemy is skaven... Why don't you bring high magic? Play loremastery and 6 dice every turn fiery convocation, it is a must dispel for him! Miscast is an option but only a diceroll of 2-3 or 11-12 are bad for you, the rest isn't that bad! I should take the risk! You can swap spells for spells of other lores, lore of life once or twice? (earth blood, maybe throne of vines so you can ignore miscasts on 2+?) The rest of the list looks nice! But if your main enemy is skaven, why so many skinks? They won't work out!
I really think you need a BSB in just about any game. At 2500 points, you need one. Skaven have lots of stuff to make you panic. High damage magic to throw at you, auto-panic shooting and nasty template-shooting and in close combat they also have some tough units (HPA, Plaguebearers with all the trinkets). Simply put: you need that re-roll. I personally don't quite like Scar-vets on foot, especially with crown of command. The crown is a solid item, but against lots of armies you don't need it in combat. You can buff the unit of Saurus with you Slann, be steadfast and happy about it, simply outclass your opponents unit or in a dire situation: take the hits and roll your awesome cold-blooded Ld9 (with re-roll!). In any case; if you DO need the Crown of command to bail you out, the enemy you are facing will tear through your Saurus no matter what. If you are facing such a formidable foe, they can and will target and kill you scar-vet out of the unit and proceed slaughtering the saurus anyway. Most cases, it's an overkill item. When it IS usefull...well, it is just awesome . As for magic defence; you're basically maxed out. Against a dangerous opponent like Skaven this is fine, but versus...say Bretonnia it's overkill (side note: Crown of command is very good vs Brets). Overall it is a solid list, and you will do fine against pretty much everybody. Adding a Bastiladon or some Chameleons and/or Teradons will be helpfull. Supporting units are very nice to have and bail you out of a nasty situation. Short tip vs Skaven: The Terrifying mask of Eee (or anything that causes terror->Bastiladon) works surprisingly well versus their supporting units and war machines. Since these don't have ranks, they generally have poor leadership. Their war machines cannot fail a test, otherwise they are destroyed. I really like making my opponent roll leadership tests! Hope this helps, The Hunted
I'd keep the crown. You can't always count on magic buffs and you can absorb a flank charge without much risk. I've done will with a 6 wide 5 deep block of saurus, stubborn thanks to the crown. Saurus aren't that easy to kill, and if you can make them fight to the last man (err, lizard) your opponent will have a tough time getting the points. A lot of opponents will jump on an exposed flank, not considering that the unit might be stubborn. -Matt
Steadfast against skaven? I've seen a list last month and he played two blocks of 10x20 slaves, steadfast won't help in these cases.. As lizardmen against skaven the problem is they have so many dice you will die.. As i told high lvl magic is you strength and you have to use it! Fiery convocation works nice! Tempest is also nice because of the small bases.. Large blasts will kill them! Agreed that magic isn't always the thing you can count on, but with a Slann in your army you have to give the frog some thrust! Throw 6 dice on high lvl spells, take the miscast and make the best of it with soul of stone! Yes it is a risk, but those 10 templeguard you lose are nothing when you see 30 spearmen of a unit of 60 burning! secondly, ye you have miscast but a spell like this is a remains in play! It is so dangerous that people sacrefice their magic phase to dispel that spell with powerdice! I played this spell once before and the result was that it made me win the game because those powerfull spells were helping me so much! Ye my slann was on the end of the game a Lv1 wizard, but that wasn't that bad because he was still alive and he killed about 30% of the whole enemies army!
Thanks again for the replies. I want to keep the scarvet on foot in the saraus unit partly because I like the model. I'm wondering though if I rejig the slann to have high magic and a dispell scroll and drop a skink priest if that might make a better list. Also If I drop the Old Blood I can gain some points in my lord slot for the dispell scroll Lord: Slann: - High Magic, Dispel Scroll, BsB, Standard of Discipline, Focus of Mystery, Soul of Stone, Becalming Hero: Scar Vet - Crown of Command, Enchanted Shield, Warrior Bane, LA Priest - Cube of Darkness Core: 35 Saraus - Full Command, Spears 3 x 10 Skirmishers Special: 10 Chamo Skinks 26 Temple Guard - Full Command, Razor Standard Rare: Ancent Steg - Sharpened Horns 2 Salamanders This leaves me with 220 points left to add to the army. I can replace the old blood with a scar vet on cold one and give him 5 cold one calv to ride with. Or another unit of 2 salamanders. Or put back in the bastilidon (namely for the +1 initiative and protect the weak side of the temple guard unit that the slann in bunkered on. I only have the 2 salamanders though and if that is my best option I will need to buy two more, dipping into the credit I have at GW. Also, I bought a box of ten temple guard bringing my total up to 30 models. Thanks for the advice so far. -edit- just relised I dont have points for scarvet and cold one riders. I could add two units of terradons to the army leaving me with 10 points to spare.
i like solar beam cannon. its a pretty nice option to throw one dice at, no risk. sometimes its even worth the dispell.
I'd honestly drop soul of stone for something else, only because your using wandering deliberations and will be using at max 3 dice per cast. You only more ally néed to worry about miscast when ur throwing 4-6 dice on a cast. Most sig spells take a casting value of 5 or 6 with the highest being wyssans at like 10 and with a lvl 4 slann it shouldn't take more than 3 dice to get the last 6 pts.. Unless the old ones hate you, in which case ur F@&$ed anyway. Better to take harmonic for the chance at extra dice Ps keep the old blood, you want something that can answer a challenge at a 2500 pt lvl and scar vets get eaten alive by just about everything, 2 wounds sucks. Try something like: Old blood: Armor of destiny Cold one OTS GW Crown of command Put that guy in a saurus hord with spears with a minimalist slann wit WD or lore master in ur tg bunker and you'll eat through just about anything