8th Ed. Help vs high elves and chaos warriors

Discussion in 'Lizardmen Tactics' started by Rettile, Jun 12, 2013.

  1. Rettile
    Ripperdactil

    Rettile Active Member

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    i'm going to have a match with vampire counts vs high elves and chaos warriors. I already played against elves (7° ed, but they are quite similar) but never against chaos warriors. We'll have 2000 points each one, and i plan to have a life slann, some salamanders, temple guards, a unit of saurus warriors and a skrox, but i don't know if the skrox is able to counter the chaos infantry units. Maybe is better taking more saurus warriors? I don't know which of this things to play:
    -skink priest with engine
    -some scar vets
    -skink chief on ancient steg with the magic lance
    and i don't know what to do against demon princes. Advices?
     
  2. NexS1
    Carnasaur

    NexS1 Well-Known Member

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    I always have alot of trouble vs. WoC regardless of which army I take (I have Lizards and High Elves).
    The only mage that can out-magic an elf (in my opinion) is a beefy slann, so kit him out to the teeth.

    Vs. WoC, I'd consider Lore of Metal because it ignores armour saves. Unfortunately the buff you can get for armour gives you scaly skin which we already have (unless an errata somewhere states that it stacks for us - i'm not sure).
    Otherwise, you may like Beast's increasing strength and toughness or Light's ASF and initiative related bonuses.
     
  3. PlasmaDavid
    Kroxigor

    PlasmaDavid Active Member

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    EotG ward save is a must vs High Elves, surely.

    Also Lore of Metal should melt Chaos Warriors.
     
  4. skillfull_dan
    Chameleon Skink

    skillfull_dan New Member

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    WoC is the army I have the most trouble with. Lore of metal helps a lot.

    There is no solution for demon princes, they are one of the most cost effective models in the game right now and we dont have access to any of the solutions other armies can try ( cannon, terrorgheist, Heroic killing blow, Light banishment council ).

    This sounds like a rock solid all-comers list. Unfortunately it is hard to face off against WoC with a list not designed to trash them ( ie lore of metal ),

    If an all0comers list is what you want however you have a great start, and I would kit your scar vets out on cold ones and either great weapons or the burning blade to go chimera hunting. Also I would avoid the skink chief on stegadon because flying chimeras and princes will always get the charge first and he will never get to use that lance.

    So the skrox are the ideal unit to throw against his skullcrushers, chosen, daemon prince, or chimera. They are not good against chaose warriors (hitting on 6's against mark of nurgle warriors). So you really need to get the matchup you want with your skrox otherwise they are in trouble.
     
  5. NexS1
    Carnasaur

    NexS1 Well-Known Member

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    Only if they take alot of arrows, which I don't always do - especially with the army wide martial prowess
     
  6. Stonecutter
    Terradon

    Stonecutter Member

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    Let's not forget this is an alliance battle and the lizzies don't have to do all the heavy lifting. Here are a few ideas for what each army can contribute:

    Vamp Strengths:

    1) the DP - A couple terrorgheists could take out the DP. With the FAQ the shriek can now be cast into combat so simply keep the terrorgheists within 12" of the vamp general and they will be able to fly in and smoke the DP whether or not it is in combat. Also, they could take out hellcannons, RBTs, chariots, monstrous cav, etc. This might even result in the DP avoiding combat and trying to run away from the terrorgheists (which is just as good since he is not in combat earning his points!!)

    2) tooled up vamp lord - tooled up mounted vamp lord with ASF, red fury, ogre/giant/obsidian blade & other stuff could chew through anything in a WoC or HE list and can even give the DP a run for his money.

    3) chaff - a host of cheap units that can be used to tie up, deflect or delay the enemy. Dire wolves are particularly good since they move 18", are way less than skinks and can vanguard.

    4) Vargheists - the perfect unit for taking out the high elf rear area troops. With skirmish, fly, stomp & loads of S5 attacks, S3/T3 elves will get crushed. They would also be excellent flankers against more elite infantry units.

    5) Hexwraiths - risky but very good if used carefully since the drive-by S5, no armour save attacks can take a few wounds off of skullcrushers or even a DP.

    6) tar pit - zombies & ghouls do very well in this regard. If supported by a corpse cart, the units can be even more effective.

    Now, there are a few areas where the vamps are relatively weak that lizzies can really fill in the missing pieces:

    1) scouts - 2-3 decent size units of chameleons to go after war machines or squishy elf infantry/archers. Deployment may be challenging due to the enemy deployment area being filled but careful selection & place of terrain should help this by creating hiding spots behind buildings/monuments, etc.

    2) template shooting - Sallies are devastating against elves and a couple decent templates on a horde of WoC can ruin their day, kill far more warriors than is possible in a round of combat and it causes a panic check to boot!

    3) mass shooting - skirmish skinks are great for taking on expensive elf troops and cheap enough to be disposable.

    4) roadblock heroes - scar vet cowboys within 12" of a LD 10 slaan can be expected to hold up a WoC death star long enough for a flanking unit to move into position and then charge in to get the necessary static res working in your favour. Vamp heroes can't do this as they crumble when they lose.

    5) units that don't die in droves - saurus & TG will lose against WoC but the will not die in the masses that vamp infantry will. Toss in a life buff or two and the units become amazing. After that, flank them with black knights (& the chopomatic vamp lord)/saurus/TG and let static res do the rest.

    6) Magic - Slaan rocks the magic phase and is great on defence as well. Vamp magic is far more subtle (i.e. ineffective). If reliance on vamp magic is minimized, the vamp general doesn't risk miscasts and can be better tooled for combat.

    All this to say that each army can bring some excellent capabilities to the field to complement the other. Key is to coordinate the overall army design with a plan in mind on how to get the most out of them when its game time.
     
  7. Rettile
    Ripperdactil

    Rettile Active Member

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    i'm wondering if salamanders are worth the points in this match...
    probably there will be many quick units (M9/10), and sallyes could be charged before they can shoot
     
  8. Stonecutter
    Terradon

    Stonecutter Member

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    Sallies will absolutely be worth bringing IMHO as even a single round of shooting on elite elf troops will allow them to more than earn their points back (e.g. 2 templates on a horde of 40 x white lions will kill ~20 models - try killing 20 WL in combat with saurus or TG without losing twice that number of your own troops) As you indicate however, they are vulnerable to being charged by fast movers so the key is to protect them until they are in a position to move in for a kill shot. This can be done by using buildings and/or other units to prevent the sallies from being charged. Keep in mind that sallies are skirmishers that can march 12" and shoot with a ~8" template, thus they are a threat to any unit within 20-30".
     

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