ok i'm starting to learn a little more spent the last few days at the local place playing and proxying peoples stuff. i like the skinks a lot with the movement and the poison. anyway i've built a list i'm going to 2250 because that's the norm around here. going to start with some more skinks and a engine. keeping the temple guards and warriors for the sake of already having them and can't see a reason to send them away yet. anyway let me know if this is decent or tell me to stfu and quit posting list Saurus Oldblood Equipment Cold One Shield Great Weapon Saurus Oldblood Dispel Scroll Light Armour Great Weapon Shield Engine of the gods Skink Chief Light Armour Shield Skink Chief Blowpipe Light Armour Skink Priest Dispel Scroll Skink Skirmishers (10) Skink Skirmishers (10) 10 x Skinks with a Kroxigor 10 x Skinks with a Kroxigor 10 x Skinks with a Kroxigor 10 x Suarus Warriors with spears and a musician 10 x Suarus Warriors with musician 1 x Stegadon 10 x Temple Guard with musician
Not to be rude, but first thing you need to do is clean up your army lists presentation. As it is right now, it is unreadable. Look at how most of the other lists in the forum are formated and try and emulate that.
ok sorry i'll clean stuff up. i made it more than a giant blob anyway i'm not too versed on the items and equipment part of the game so any help on that will be really cool.
yeah i think i've missed that point of the book, damn reading skills. i've read a lot of stuff in the last few weeks and it hasnt' all soaked in yet.
First, welcome! The folks here are pretty nice, so dont be afraid to post. Although, if you start a new thread for a question that was asked recently someone will tell you to search instead of giving you the answer. Ok, now to the army. First thing, you have 5 Hero/Lord choices. For a 2250 game, you are allowed: 1 Lord 4 Characters 0-2 Rare 0-4 Special and you MUST take 3 or more Core This info is found on page 89 of your Lizardmen Army book. Oldbloods are Lords. So you are allowed only 1 in your army. The Lord choices are on pages 90-91 of the army book. You are allowed a total of 4 Characters. Characters are Heroes and Lords. You currently have 5 or maybe 6. The Engine of the Gods isnt actually something you purchase independently... you take a Skink Priest and then upgrade him with an Engine of the Gods. There is no other way to field it. So, if your Skink Priest is for the Engine of the Gods then you have 5 Characters currently. If you didnt count the Skink Priest on your Engine of the Gods, then you have 6 Characters. Other than the Characters, your army is well within acceptable unit types. Just remember to keep an eye on that for the future (Core, Special and Rare units are all listed as such on pages 94-98). Next is about itemization. Arcane items can ONLY be taken by Wizards (in our case this means either Skink Priests or Slann Mage-Priests). Your Oldblood is fitted with a Dispel Scroll which is an arcane item (page 99). If you are wanting 2 dispel scrolls, you'll need to put them on your Skink Priest. He can hold 50pts worth of magic items, so 2 dispel scrolls at 25 pts each will fill him up. Ok, that covers all the technicalities. Now we get to the good stuff, input. ----------------------- First lets approach magic. From your list, you obviously understand the necessity of countering enemy magic. Your list is designed around normal combat with just enough counter magic to get by. Might I recommend you enhance that even a touch further and have your Skink Priest on the Engine of the Gods take the Diadem of Power (page 102) instead of a dispel scroll? I'd set him up with Diadem of Power (25 pts) and Dispel Scroll (25 pts). The Diadem of Power lets him save up to 2 Power Dice (generated during your magic phase) to use as Dispel Dice (during your opponents magic phase). Since your army is very magic light, I wouldnt count on getting off many or any spells. So the best use of your Wizard is going to be generating magic counter. In addition, any time you take the Engine of the Gods, you will almost automatically want to upgrade your Skink Priest to a Level 2 Wizard. The reason is thus: - page 55 Lets look at this from all the angles: 1. A Level 1 Wizard generates 1 Power Dice and 1 Dispel Dice and may use 2 Power Dice to cast spells. 2. A Level 2 Wizard generates 2 Power Dice and 1 Dispel Dice and may use 3 Power Dice to cast spells. 3. With the EotG, a Level 1 Wizard generates 2 Power dice and 1 Dispel dice and may use 3 Power Dice to cast spells. 4. With the EotG, a Level 2 Wizard generates 3 Power Dice and 2 Dispel Dice and may use 4 Power DIce to cast spells. The thing to remember is that lvl 1-2 Wizards generate 1 Dispel Dice, lvl 3-4 Wizards generate 2 Dispel Dice. So the EotG boost is greater on a Level 2 Skink Priest than it is on a Level 1 Skink Priest. And it's only 35 pts. So, with a Level 2 Skink Priest on the Engine of the Gods as your only magic in the army you'd have the following: 5 Power Dice 4 Dispel Dice with the option to carry over 2 Power Dice as Dispel Dice 1 Dispel Scroll ----------------------- Next lets talk about unit choices. You could definitely field your army as you have it written (other than the Characters mentioned above). The following suggestions are what I'd do to solidify this into a more stable army. The Skink + Kroxigor units are unstable. What I mean by this, is you arent going to be able to win any close combats with them, unless you are fighting something really weak. These units are going to be useful basically as flankers. With that 55pt Kroxigor tucked in there, they lose their excellent expendibility. 10 ranked Skinks are only 50 pts. You can use these as fodder when and where you like without having to worry about it, as long as it nets you positive control of the board. And since they are ranked, they can negate enemy rank bonus if you can throw them into a flank. You lose this versatility (in my mind) by adding an extra 55 pts into each unit. A 50 pt unit is very easy to sacrifice to me, but a 105 pt unit I'd be more careful with. Now, the Kroxigor would be worth it if you are fighting low leadership enemies and you think the Fear is worth 55 pts. Just remember, a Skink + Kroxigor unit is going to be losing combat (and possibly fleeing) because skinks die in droves and it is very hard to make up that amount of Combat Resolution. If you like the Kroxigor (and honestly, they are cool models) maybe consider taking them out of the Skink units and have a unit of Kroxigor. 3 Kroxigor will still have great maneuverability and the unit is more likely to survive a battle than if you put Skinks with them. Other than that, the Skink Skirmishers are solid. 2 units of 10 are excellent. Some people even run 3 units, but I find 2 units to be enough. Ok, now we come down to the Saurus Warriors and Temple Guard. I'd boost that unit of Saurus Warriors and drop the Temple Guard personally. Temple Guard are 5 pts more per model and you get 1 WS and 1 I. Most important (to me at least) is that you also lose the option of spears. Spears lets your 2nd rank fight as if it were in close combat as well. For Saurus Warriors this means that with a 5 wide unit, you are able to get in 20 attacks each round. That's a *lot*. So, I'd boost that Saurus Warrior unit to the following: 20 Saurus Warrior w/ Spears, Musician and Standard - 258 pts. This is important because your army currently lacks anything to hold up in an extended battle. In a 2250 pt game, you can be pretty sure your opponent is going to bring at least something nasty. Right now, none of your units would survive more than 1 round or 2, if you are rolling well. So, you take a solid block of Saurus Warriors (I'd really recommend 2 blocks btw) and when they get in combat, then your mass of fast moving Skinks, Kroxigor and Stegadon come into the flanks to bash it up. Or you let your Saurus Warriors deal with it (if you judge them to be standing their own) and use your fast movers to team up on support units. But you really *need* something to hold up against a powerful opponent. ----------------------- Ok, so that is a massive wall of text. I tried splitting it up into sections for easier digestion. My question is, what do you plan to use the Skink Chiefs for? Also, how familiar are you with Combat Resolution?
First of all thanks a whole lot for that, helps me a ton. i understand the combat stuff but i forget how many skinks will be perishing. the chiefs where just because the boxes of stegs come with them. i don't mind buying more stuff but i figure if it's there i can use it and replace is later. so a engine of the gods since it has the priest in it counts as two characters? i was kinda confused by that. i can have the oldblood an engine and another steg, the Kroxigors are special so that would that group out i think. if my counting right and it's more than likely not that's 1 lord, 2 characters and 4 special? is that something to ride with and do more core for the points or would you suggest some rare stuff or more characters? and it seems like calvary is a joke but what about the terredons? and are salmanders worth the points?
No, an Engine of the Gods is nothing more than a mount. You take a Skink Priest (1 Character choice) and simply pay the points to give him a mount (in this case, Engine of the Gods). It doesnt count against your Special, Rare or Core units. Mounts are basically just items. 1 Lord - Oldblood 3 Heroes - Skink Priest w/ Engine of the Gods and 2 Skink Chiefs -------- 4 Characters total. All kosher. Several Core - Not sure how you are putting together all your Warrior and Skink units yet, but each one counts as Core. You easily exceed the 3 minimum. 2 Special - 1 unit of Kroxigor and 1 Stegadon 0 Rare This means you can add (points permitting): 2 Rare 2 Special You definitely have room for more fun beasties. Salamanders are excellent and I think most people recommend them strongly. They arent a *must* have, but they are very useful. Salamanders use a ranged breath weapon. You point the Salamander at the target, roll the artillery dice and move the flame template that many inches forward. What makes this great is: - WHF Rulebook page 94 Combined with: And the fact that the attack is a -3 Armor Save to the victims and is Flaming. So anything under the template is auto-hit with -3 Armor save and if even 1 dies, then the unit has to test for fleeing. Overall they are really nice. Most people field them in pairs with the extra handler upgrade. Terradons are also very highly used. They have lots of little rules that are nice... there actually is a thread going on about them now. http://www.lustria-online.com/threads/terradons.1668/ And dont dismiss Cold One Calvary too quickly. They are combat beasts. With their high movement, you want to be charging from the flank/rear, but they can chow through units like nobody's business. They are, however, expensive. So I wouldnt take them in a smaller game unless you have a very specific plan for them. Hmm... I think that goes for the Cold One Calvary period. They are very useful, but being as expensive as they are, you need to have a specific goal.
yeah i'm going to the local shop later i'm going to buy some skinks and put an order in for another box of skinks and 2 stegs. i have everything from the battalion so i have enough to piece together something to play with along with that stuff till i figure out where the rest of my points are going to fall. Kroxigor come single or is that a box of three on gamesworkshop site? after those i'm going to proxy the rest of the stuff to see what i want to complete this army. i really like the gorilla tactics with a skink heavy army. you've been a lot of help and now i have a really solid idea of what or at least what direction i want to head towards. the person i'm playing the most against plays chaos warriors so picking off his big bad warriors with little skinks from a distance is funny.
Unforunately they come single. The set of three in the pic on Games Workshop site is a single Kroxigor, but they randomize which model you get. The other Kroxigors you get to choose the model. Does it make sense? No. Does it confuse? Yes. Why? God only knows. You'll find that all of our monsters are expensive. The worst is the terradon... a 30pt model that everyone should have at least 3 of and they are US $17 a pop. Come on! Proxying is the ideal way to build your army, since our specials are all individual and expensive. Out of curiousity, are you planning on painting them? What color scheme have you thought about?
i am painting and i would post a pic but i'm at the office right now. but i've been doing the skinks since they're a little easier and i have like a light blue paingint the spots and dorsa fin yellow. those will be the skirmisher i think and i think i'm going to reverse it for the normal skinks
ok after lots of reading and thinking i want to get some feedback on this list. Saurus Oldblood (291) Hide of cold ones, Aura of Quetzl, venom of the firefly, shield, light armor and riding a cold one Priest (440) lvl 2 EOTG dispell scroll and Diadem of Power Priest (140) lvl 2 plaque of Tepok Dispell scroll Skink Chief (84) Sword of Hornet Shield Light Armor 3 groups of 10 skirmishers (210) 3 groups of 10 skinks (150) group of 20 suarus Warriors (258) musician standard bearer and spears 5 cold one cavalry (175) Stegadon (235) 3 Terradon Riders (90) 2 sallies (150) total of 2223 going for 2250 so i have a little room. any suggestions?
Well, i can pick one illegallity, the hide of the cold ones can only be used on an unmounted Saurus model.
yeah that was a mistake sorry but other than that does it look like something that will be average and not make me a lamb to the slaughter?
looks nice if you play with a hell lot of skinks but im not sure about the skink chiefs magic weapon with his I he is going to strike first anyway maybe you can put him on the terradon and with that magic bow thing i believe the name was staff of the lost sun ( my book is in my room ...... somewhere )
I'd say that's a pretty solid list there. Now that you have your units and characters set, the best thing to do would be to go over your general game plan. Are you going to have that Oldblood riding with the Cold One Calvary or is he going to be solo hunting? Is he going to be hanging near the middle of your army for some reason? Is he going to be running behind your skinks to give them a leadership boost? Same with the Skink Chief. How is he going to be deployed (in a unit and if so which one, or solo) and what is your primary goal going to be with him? Are your Skink Priests going to be hugging your center block or are you sending them out on their own? For the Engine of the Gods, I'd recommend hanging out a little behind and to the flank if the danger isnt too high. It's a large target, so you'll have line of sight to whatever you wish with your Skink Priest, and then when the moment is right you can sweep forward and into a flank attack for an Impact Hits/Burning Alignment combo to hopefully wreck up the place. The foot Skink Priest on foot is going to be riskier and more fragile, but you may want to send it after a few units of quick moving skinks to give them support. Oh, one thing to remember... the Skink Priest with Engine of the Gods, as a large target, is going to be able to cast all the lore of heavens spells that he knows while engaged in combat. This is because none of the spells are magic missiles and a large target can see over the enemies he is in close combat with. That, in addition to the extra power dice and ability to use more power dice per spell, may make him a better candidate for the Plaque of Topek. It is a really tough call, but I think I'd be slightly more inclined to swap that Diadem of Power and Plaque of Topek between the Skink Priests. You have better casting potential on the Engine of the Gods, so the extra spell could be really handy (especially if you manage to snag one of the damage spells). Then the foot Skink Priest could use his power dice for dispel dice or maybe to cast the occasional Portent of Far on the skink units he is escorting. A skirmisher volley with Portent of Far can be nasty, and if you cast it on a ranked Skink unit that gets a flank charge, you might be able to take out a couple more enemy models. The downside, of course, is that Engines of the God tend to gather lots of ranged fire. This would make the Skink Priest on there both more potent but also more of a target. Since you mentioned fighting Chaos Warriors, I think you'd be safe doing it though. Against dwarves or empire it'd be riskier. For your Oldblood I'd drop the Venom of the Firefly and give him the Burning Blade of Chotec. Flaming and -2 Armor Save. Since he has a Strength 5, this means you'll net a -4 to the enemy's armor save. This plus the Flaming ability to negate regeneration and do extra wounds against some things makes it a really nice sword for only 20 pts. When you are fighting Warriors of Chaos, you're going to need armor penetration. While the Venom is handy for the the auto-wound, the Warriors of Chaos defense spike is in Armor Saves, which poison still has to fight. Of course, even if you did take the Venom you'd still have a -2 to the enemy's armor save. Maybe they are a wash. Does this opponent use deamons in his army as well? Or anything that grants regeneration?
Well, it looks OK to me, but i don't have much experience (let alone with a mostly skink army.) Id say you could drop the venom on the oldblood, and if you have the points, give him a maiming shield. Perhaps you could make those skink cohort 2 units of 15? Im not sure here, units of 10 just seem to small for me, unless they're a scren. Now, the chief, what i usually do with mine, is put him on a terradon, give him a blowpipe and the shield of the mirrored pool (as magic missiles are the best thing to shoot at terradons,) have him join my unit and le them roam around, and do what they need to. Im not saying this is the best way to go, but this is my advice. This was a bigger, better post before, but them something happened and it didn't post, so this is just a quicky one before i go to bed... sorry Hope you can put pics up soon!
yeah thanks for the advice have a few more parts to order this week, waiting to finish selling some stuff on ebay. wife tends to like it better when i use extra generated income for stuff like this then money out of saving lol
Firstly, snow and KFTW look like they've hit all the key points for your list. I'd say overall, its a solid and balanced list that will do decently against all comers. I'd make sure that if you do intend to take 3x units of 10 skink cohorts, that you keep them at 10 a piece. Making them larger limits your potential mobility and ability to redirect charges. That will be what you'll find these units of little guys are best at. Unless you plan on really beefing a unit out 20+ with full command, they will have a tendancy to just get trashed in CC. There may be some contention with the above comments and a unit of Skink Cohorts admittedly gets more powerfull with a Kroxigor upgrade or two. Best of luck putting things together. Ebay is a great place to get models, especially if you have to avoid using 'wife funds' to buy models (all too familiar with this).
Thanks Also, it'd do well to listen to Barotok, he really knows his stuff. And yeah... abut the skinks, if you want an actual CC unit, you'll probably have to go something like 16 skinks and 2 Kroxiors, that way you've got numbers and massive hitting power (of almost a basic unit of Kroxigors.)