8th Ed. How do you explain A-steg 4D6 Giant Blowpipe rule to others?

Discussion in 'Lizardmen Discussion' started by Pinktaco, Oct 7, 2013.

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  1. Pinktaco
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    Pinktaco Vessel of the Old Ones Staff Member

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    Discussed this with a friend, but he cannot seem to understand the rule. Or well we disagree with me on it. I've searched googled, I've found numerous links stating the same: the giant blowpipe makes 4D6 attacks. The reason? From what I can understand there are 2 blowpipes and the weapon description (unless otherwise stated) would only count for ONE of the blowpipes.

    The weapon desecription states that it does 2D6 poisoned wounds.

    So here's the problem, my friend reads this as that BOTH weapons does a maximum of 2D6 attacks. He reads the description as both blowpipes shares the profile (I hope this is properly explained).

    So uhm yeah.. I've shown him 5 different links, with 1 of them being to here (which he dismissed because this forum is biased).

    I've now asked him to make a thread on an empire forum (or wherever he feels like) and ask the question there, because I don't see what else I can do to convince him without him being annoyed by it.

    It would be great if there is a similar rule to another unit from another faction, or maybe something in the BRB I could use.

    For now he has agreed to let me use it with 4D6, but TBH I don't feel like doing that because if it somehow ends up doing more damage then expected he'll hate me for it lol.
     
    Pinktaco, Oct 7, 2013
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  2. n810
    Slann

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    Re: How do you explain A-steg 4D6 Giant Blowpipe rule to oth

    Well if none of that worked, you could point out that each giant blow pipe is modeled with 2 mouth pieces each for a grand total of 4.
     
    n810, Oct 7, 2013
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  3. Pinktaco
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    Re: How do you explain A-steg 4D6 Giant Blowpipe rule to oth

    TBH we've come to the point where he needs solid proof in terms of text that it does 4D6 wounds. He reads the rules differently than I do. Personally I'd argue that the text itself continuosly mentions "blowpipe" as in a singular noun.

    The issue is that he can continue to make excuses for it to not work. The only thing for him to accept it is if:

    1) He would just bother to ask say the empire forum (he's an empire player) and that they would all agree on that it's 4D6. The issue is that while I've asked him several times to make a thread he haven't bothered, for whatever reason.

    2) Having a very close to similar rule on another unit from another faction.

    3) if the BRB mentions a solution in the book. Something that cannot be misunderstood and is clear as fuck.

    4) an updated FAQ with a better description.

    Solution 2 appears to be the best solution, but I don't think there are any other of these sort of rules out there. The 4th is more or less never going to happen.


    If any of you wonder why we've bothered to discuss this it's because I'm going to play his wood elf army this wednesday and most of them are according to him rather squishy (I've never played them/seen their rules) or they at the very least have a low armour save.

    So yeah, unless we come across a solution, I'm just going to stick with 2D6. It's what I've been playing with so far anyway <.<
     
    Pinktaco, Oct 7, 2013
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  4. pgarfunkle
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    Re: How do you explain A-steg 4D6 Giant Blowpipe rule to oth

    Well the rules say that 2 skinks may each fire a giant blowpipe and the profile for a blowpipe is then listed. If that was the profile for both blowpipes combined I would expect the wording to be more along the lines of the 2 blowpipes can be fired with the following profile.

    Granted it could be worded more explicitly but there are other rules that are less clear (predatory fighter I'm looking at you).
     
    pgarfunkle, Oct 7, 2013
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  5. Qupakoco
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    Re: How do you explain A-steg 4D6 Giant Blowpipe rule to oth

    Yah, the text in the book seemed clear to me. A giant blowpipe uses the stat line in the LM book. The Ancient is packing two. Two Skinks may each shoot one. You have the book, right?

    You could say they're twin linked...
     
    Qupakoco, Oct 7, 2013
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  6. VampTeddy
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    Re: How do you explain A-steg 4D6 Giant Blowpipe rule to oth

    page 45 of the lizardmen army book "Giant Blowpipe: Two giant blowpipes are affixed to an Ancient Stegadon's howdah

    Instead of firing another missile weapon in the Shooting phase, up to two Skink Crew may each fire a single giant blowpipe."

    The rules are stated obviously and i see no need for a FAQ - tell your friend the rules are clear and ask him to read over them again - just because something is written in cursive does not negate it as a part of the rules stated.

    There are 2 blowpipes (as stated), and there are 5 skinks - you are allowed to fire (unless my grammar is awful) 1 Blowpipe for each 2 skinks you have - 5 skinks and 2 giant blowpipes with 2d6 shots each = 4d6.

    if that argument does not convince him i'm not sure anything will - then he's only playing to put frosting on his own cake.
     
    VampTeddy, Oct 7, 2013
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  7. Enkill3
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    Re: How do you explain A-steg 4D6 Giant Blowpipe rule to oth

    The rules say the up to two skinks can shoot blowpipes, therefore the blowpipes must be seperate.

    For example, if you wanted to, you could have one skink fire a blowpipe, clearly, one skink doesn't get the same shooting output as two skinks,
    Therefore, 2d6 per skink shooting.
     
    Enkill3, Oct 8, 2013
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  8. pgarfunkle
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    Re: How do you explain A-steg 4D6 Giant Blowpipe rule to oth

    Almost, it's two skinks may each fire a giant blowpipe so you only need 2 skinks to fire the pair rather than 4. This means (unless I have missed another rule somewhere) that the other 3 skinks can throw javelins
     
    pgarfunkle, Oct 8, 2013
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  9. Man0waR
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    Re: How do you explain A-steg 4D6 Giant Blowpipe rule to oth

    1 blowpipe 2d6 multiple shots, you have to roll those shot in order to get hit.

    Then 2 blowpipes 4d6 multiple shots.

    At BS 3 you are hitting on 4+, since it is multiple shots you are on 5+.
    Now you have to see if the target is in long range to apply another penalty or if the Stegadon had move in the movement phase to aply another penalty.

    If you had both penalty, which it should be common, you are hitting on 7+ ( a natural roll of 6 that cannot use poisoned attack, then you reroll your 6s and get a 4+ to hit).

    The blowpipes doesn't do 4d6 wounds (as I have read in your post). Does 4d6 poisoned shots. You have to roll and usually you¡'ll have less accuracy than a A-team show or Star Wars storm troopers.

    What is more important, if you are trying to get a nice shooting phase with your A-Steg, Im sure you could have been able to charge, so you are wasting your monster in order to deliver 1 or 2 short ranged shots. (i did those mistakes many times, and my Steg got charged and lost his overwhelming impact hits).
     
    Man0waR, Oct 8, 2013
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  10. hardyworld
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    Re: How do you explain A-steg 4D6 Giant Blowpipe rule to oth

    This may be where the rub is. Two Giant Blowpipes absolutely do NOT do 4D6 wounds. You still have to hit and wound!
     
    hardyworld, Oct 8, 2013
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  11. Pinktaco
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    Re: How do you explain A-steg 4D6 Giant Blowpipe rule to oth

    That was a wording mistake on my part. We both realize that. Anyway he's going to let me get my 4D6 shots even though he doesn't agree with me. It's sort of annoying, but uhm yeah..
     
    Pinktaco, Oct 8, 2013
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  12. rychek
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    Re: How do you explain A-steg 4D6 Giant Blowpipe rule to oth

    I play with a friend who is an Ogre/Skaven player and is like your friend. He doesn't agree with me on many rules and generally has a hard time accepting my interpretation of the rules, despite the fact that I'm the "rules guy" (as in the only one who will do any research or re-reading, despite him being an English Teacher) in our group. The best I've come up with in such a situation is to be sure of the rule yourself and not worry about your friend's unwillingness to accept things that are not beneficial to him.
     
    rychek, Oct 8, 2013
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  13. Carnosaur Nr1
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    Re: How do you explain A-steg 4D6 Giant Blowpipe rule to oth

    If you take a look at the 7th edition lizardmen book (Each giant blowpipe fires 2D6) so the rules are more clear in the old one but I dont think they have changed the rules on the blowpipes only the writing.
     
    Carnosaur Nr1, Oct 8, 2013
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  14. Pinktaco
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    Re: How do you explain A-steg 4D6 Giant Blowpipe rule to oth

    I just looked it up, however, I know what he'll respond: It was specifically mentioned in 7th edition and not in the 8th edition AB. So if you already read the rules a different way you'll most definately read this as that the rule having changed from 7th to 8th (in other words the steg got a nerf).
     
    Pinktaco, Oct 8, 2013
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  15. Pinktaco
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    Re: How do you explain A-steg 4D6 Giant Blowpipe rule to oth

    Well it's not as if my friend is some sort of retard and we generally don't discuss rules this way. We can argue a little, but that's just part of the game with the heavy amount of rules. He also usually accept the answers I've gotten on this forum (I've asked quite a few questions lately lol), however, now he considers the forum biased, which we obviously are but yeah.. <.<

    The thing about those blowpipes is that 1) usually we'll rather want to charge and 2) it's situational. It can be good against some units, but heavy armoured units (which he likes to use with his empire army) will laugh at it anyway.

    Against wood elfs then yeah I can see the issue with some of the units.
     
    Pinktaco, Oct 8, 2013
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  16. rychek
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    rychek Active Member

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    Re: How do you explain A-steg 4D6 Giant Blowpipe rule to oth

    Have you tried registering on the Empire forums and asking the question? Surely he can't argue if the forum agrees with you, regardless of who is asking the question.
     
    rychek, Oct 8, 2013
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  17. Pinktaco
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    Re: How do you explain A-steg 4D6 Giant Blowpipe rule to oth

    I've thought about it. It might actually end up being what I do lol.
     
    Pinktaco, Oct 8, 2013
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  18. Wizgamer
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    Re: How do you explain A-steg 4D6 Giant Blowpipe rule to oth

    Jus break it down to your opponent....

    Weapon description states 'Giant Blowpipe' - singular - therefore the weapon 'stats' are for one weapon.

    The steg has two, ergo, 4d6!
     
    Wizgamer, Oct 8, 2013
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  19. Pinktaco
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    Re: How do you explain A-steg 4D6 Giant Blowpipe rule to oth

    I've actually done this. He came up with some counter-argument.

    Anyway while he thinks it's a bit of a shady rule he'll let me have it. I've posted on the empire forum and some of the members appear to say the same (4D6)
     
    Pinktaco, Oct 8, 2013
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  20. Qupakoco
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    Re: How do you explain A-steg 4D6 Giant Blowpipe rule to oth

    Since "up to 2" Skinks can use them, ask how many shots it would fire if only one Skink used it. 1D6? That's not an option.

    Seems like your buddy is stubborn like a Dwarf. Just slap him around a bit and take away his brew, he'll come around. :meh:
     
    Qupakoco, Oct 8, 2013
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