Discussion in 'Seraphon Discussion' started by Kilvakar, Oct 31, 2021.
ATM i'm writing a batrep of my last game. A list with guards as main block and a melee basti.
you where talking about that. im very exited to see how it went
the BatRep is completed. You should find it... interesting.
Update: I've been posting some PTG battle reports in the BatRep section. But overall I've been stomping Khorne, lol! The PTG rules for 3e I've got to say are really fun. I've definitely been getting a better handle on the 3e rules, and am looking forward to when we build our armies up more and get some bigger games in.
When I do play more full-sized games, however, I think it will on the 4x6 table, since that is what I own.
i'm a few weeks removed from LVO now and have had some time to collect my thoughts. As the culmination of the first 3.0 competitive "season" I think Age of Sigmar is the best it's ever been with a few glaring, but not overly problematic, issues.
I'll start with those issues first.
1) shooting is far too pervasive, specifically shooting that is coupled with either mortal wounds, high rend, long range or all three. It creates a clear line of "can deal with it" and "can't deal with it" armies that I just dont think is healthy for the community as a whole.
2) Dragons, fulminators, and longstrikes are all problematic warscrolls but how problematic is wildly overblown.
3) Terrain needs be used to address the shooting issue, if GW won't. LVO used 2 impassable and 2 defensible on every board. This was great for actually creating a meaningful board that could fundamentally have an impact on gameplay. I think LOS blocking and/or wildwoods need to be part of this equation for every competitive event.
But now for the good!
1) the community, as always, is second to none. Every event is a riot of a good time, every game is enjoyable, and the painting on display is jaw-dropping. The aos community is bigger then it's ever been and i can confidently say, that growth hasn't made it lose any of its charm.
2) The final 8 was a testament to player skill and balance. Living Cities, Soulblight, Ironjawz, Nighthaunt, SCE, Phoenician Cities, and even mawtribes in the top 8 of the biggest AoS event in the world (RIP cancon)? That's not just cool, it's downright impressive.
3) The growth of competitive clubs. This season's "top AoS club" in the ITC is going to be an absolute blood bath and i couldn't be more excited. The competition is fierce, but everyone treats it in good fun and it's doing a great job in cross pollinating scenes that can often be pretty isolated.
4) For me personally, I was beyond pleased with my end result (4-1, ended up 29th due to some missed battle tactics, but I was playing on top table game 5 to move on to the final 8) considering i brought a list that I didn't feel like sacrificed anything I *wanted* to play with stuff i felt i *needed* to play. Carnos slap, he's definitely staying in the list!
There's countless more I could say in the good column, but i'll just sum it all up with it being a truly awesome event. Vegas was great (as always), FLG puts on an incredible show and runs a really smooth even considering the size, and i literally can not wait for next year
...and Unleash Hell is a heck of a problem. Especially paired with units that simply dish MWs and don't even care about that pitiful -1 to hit.
And when you combine it with armies that rely on CC, it only exacerbates the issue.
Personally, I think that's a symptom of the larger problem. Unleash hell is only problematic because of the reasons i listed. The change to 6'' actually helped a lot, but i definitely agree that dragon breath-style shooting attacks should simply be abilities. It is a little funny that this problem has always existed with Thanquol, but no one really cared until dragons started doing it haha.
Regardless, its not a huge complaint of mine. I often find avoiding high damage unleash hells to be (most of the time) relatively easy to work into my battle plan.
Edit: I've thought about this a little more and I think the idea that unleash hell is "easy to work into your battleplan" actually just reinforces the "can and can not deal with it" point I made earlier which isn't healthy. If you're army can field easily expendable screens it's no big deal bit thats easier for a seraphon player to say
@Caleb ex nihilo recently posted on his YouTube channel about a Thunder Lizard list that went 5-0 at the ~100-person Lone Star GT. It included some standard pieces, but was Skink heavy and included a Terradon Chief, 6x Terradons, AND an Ark of Sotek Bastiladon (in addition to Solar Engine Basti).
An interesting list.
EDIT: Still pretty much TL lists. One FoS.
Terradon chiefs are the new meta! The second place list at the London open also took a terradon chief! (first place was also seraphon btw) The second place list had a terradon chief with an arcane tomb to help extend the range of lord kroaks spells. The list didn't have any other terradons though, just the chief, which is kinda interesting. Hopefully we will see more terradons on the table, I think they are still a very fun unit.
Seraphon is really chewing up the meta right now. Storm cast is by far the most played army and seraphon does really good against storm cast. Also many Seraphon lists are taking the new storm cast drakes and really doing well with them.
Eh, kinda surprising, would've expected the chief to get shot out of the sky after one turn of extending Kroak's spells.
I'm curious how much the succes of this is dependent on the novelty, and if it'll stick around after people get used to it given that it isn't exactly difficult to shut down.
Also, this raises an interesting question. What if we could do this with a (minor) saurus hero?
They're sturdy enough to actually go near the frontline and not immeadiatly die, unlike the chiefs who fall over to a stiff breeze. Would this be something interesting to make saurus in general a bit more viable?
has to be a skink wizard. doesn't work with saurus.
I meant as a theoretical excercise, what if the rule changes to "seraphon wizard".
Would this help make saurus armies more viable as the minor saurus heroes are considerablybetter at staying alive than the minor skink heroes are, thus making it easier to keep them near the frontline.
I don't think so. It's not a role the army really has a huge need for and its also entirely dependent on an artefact and/or kroak.
I'm also probably a little biased, I don't necessarily see a huge value in the strategy in general.
The terradon chief with arcane tome is probably a meme. If you really wanted to extend kroak's spells, an engine of the gods with the tome is an actual strategy. The list also had an umbral spell portal. It is possible they just needed one or two really good kroak shots for some key heros. The list was all in on kroak having 10 guard and a astrolith bearer. Seems like a lot of fun.
Im not sure if terradon wizard feels like a meme. its one model and can be hard to get to if the table has the terrain GW intends players to have. It flies and it has high movement speed. you can zoom it out and around the opponent, forcing them to split forces or risk it in the back line. it has built in defense against melee and its a hero so it has access to command abilities. There are a lot of things going for it
It's also made out of wet tissue-paper, has very little offensive capabilities of its own & is limited to a relativly small bubble around the Slann/Kroak for the strategy to be effective.
It's not a super meme-y thing that'll only work cuz it's so stupid your opponent just doesn't expect it. But it's not something that's going to be super difficult to counter either.
And in the moment it seems dangerous, it's going to have a nice target painted on its back
thats always the trick. getting the right build at the right time.
Sam the mad lad was the only undefeated seraphon player at adepticon. Think he took his koatls claw list he took to first place at everwinter GT in December.
Double 5-0 for koatls
wow nice! Did you happen to see the list?! Always curious!