All these new releses for the Orks And goblins have me worried, they seem to be a mouthfull of trouble to face on the tabletop. With this they also seem to have gotten some nice perks (rulewise) along with it. So my question is: How can I most efficenly tackle a greenskin horde? What units should i prioritise and so on. (point limitation should be around 500-1000, but feel free to ad advices for bigger games aswell) All sugestion are welcome (aslong as it helps to leaves a pile of dead greenskins)
salamanders make a mess of all greenskins, goblins especially though, and they also cut through black orc armor.
Don't get to worked up over the Greenskins. I've been playing since 6th Ed. came out (not as long as some) and they've never been a very competative army. It looks particularly intimidating when you set up across from a force stacked two units deep with a full six foot frontage but they tend to be less effective an army than Skaven. Here's why not to worry - Movement: Four inches, just as slow as our Saurus so they have no real advantage. Their only boon here are his wolf riders which have nine inches but they're goblins. Magic: The big waagh is more powerful than the little waagh but it's an improvement over what you could consider a half decent magic list. It's based primarily around direct damage and magic missile spells. However, NEVER let him get his Waagh spell off, it's truely devistating. Shooting: BS3 on everything and war machines are run by Goblins, nuff said. Combat: Here is where Orcs do better. They have good strength and toughness to do some damage and take some damage. However they have little armour so it's their downside. Also they have low initiative so they'll strike simultanious with our Saurus. Their Characters are comprable to ours if not weaker. Overall they have horde value to them much like Skaven and Empire but without the tricksy stuff of Skaven or War Machines. On top of all that they're Animosity is their worst enemy. I've seen some (rumored fact) about the new codex from Warseer and it looks like the best things that are happening to the orcs are one more spell each waagh lore and the giant spider. Other than that their good end of animosity stinks and the bad end got even worse (supposedly if you roll a 1 after failing animosity they attack the nearest unit within 12" and do d6 str3 damage and both units can't move). --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) If you see night goblins kill them off from a distance to make them panic. Salamanders (good for everything in the ork army) are excellent for this but you can also use Razordons, Ancients (Giant blow pipe), and Skinks. Just stay outside of eight inches so you don't release his finatics. If the Night Goblins run they lose their finatics. 2) Roc Lobbers and Goblin Doom Divers are the nasty war machines of the orcs. The Doom Diver is highly effective as it allows no armour save and can readjust D3 inches automatically. The Roc Lobber is a template weapon so I won't need to expand on that. Just kill them with Chameleons and be happy. 3) They're gonna have HUGE blocks of Orc boyz. The usual number I see around my place is no less than 30 and is usually in the 36-42 range (six wide frontage). You probably won't see too many hordes of Orcs (though Goblins is somewhat typical) because it get's expensive for virtually no pay back. 3a) You'll usually see orcs arrayed with hw/s combo for added staying power. Expect to see smaller units of around 18 with dual choppas for support. While the large hw/s units will hold you in place with stubborn the x2 choppa units will smash into your flanks and tear you apart. 4) If you see a unit of Savage orcs shoot them down before they reach you. Their best bet is dual choppa which gives them three attacks per and if they get waagh off your in real trouble. They only have a 6+ ward so shoot them down. Hope this helps!
Seeing as there's been over a year since JohnMavrick posted his awesome summary, it's sad to see you took notice of it weeks before it becomes (somewhat) invalid with the new O&G armybook. There is no telling what will change be there... yet.
Always good to see a naysayer Hoverboy The news I got from Warseer is from a guy who was fairly well spot on when he was listing changes between 7th and 8th edition. While I wholeheartedly believe that it's all just rumor until the book comes out I think we can be reasonably assured about his information if taken with a grain of salt. I'll post the email I got from my friend (I will not set foot on the warseer as the server at work blocks it) who watches Warseer religiously.
Here's the email I mentioned in my previous post. For a nice summary: Originally Posted by BramGaunt Bram Gaunts OnG summary Disclaimer: I will repeat some things that already were said. I will only talk about -new- things. I will not talk about pointcosts. I have a raging headache, so there will be more mispelling than usual.(I corrected a lot – Mike) General Rules Animosity: Each Unit with the Animosity special rule with at least 5 models with that rule rolls 1d6 at beginning of their players turn. 2+ nothing happens, and the unit may act normally. You do not toll for animosity as long as you man a building. On a roll of 1, roll a D6 again, and consult the following chart to see what happens. 1: The unit deals D6 S3 autohits to the nearest friendly unit with: at least 5 models that have the animosity rule, within 12 inches. The 'hit' unit afterwards deals D6 S3 hits to the quarreling unit. If there's no valid 'target', treat this result as a 2-5 Hordes cause 2D6 hits. This never causes panic. Both units may not perform any other action in this turn. The 'victim' does not have to roll for animosity this turn - they are to busy fighting back. 2-5: The unit has to declare an attack at the nearest valid enemy unit. If there is no target, the greenskins start to attack each other. Nothing happens, but the unit may not move, attack, shoot or cast spells for the following turn. 6. "Who's da best? Yes, dat's us. Let's get 'em!" The unit is aligned towards the nearest enemy unit and performs a regular move action towards that unit (it may not march, and stops 1 inch before enemy units. ). Afterwards, the unit may act normal. If there is no visible opponent the unit moves straight forward. EG: A unit of Goblin Wolf Riders rolls a 1, followed by a 6, for animosity. You measure the distance to all enemy units, and find that a unit of Highelf Reavers, standing 20" away in their flank, is the nearest unit. The goblins are now turned on spot (as they would be if they were to pursue an enemy) and are moved 9 inches towards the reavers afterwards. They may declare a charge, move, march or fire their weapons at will. Choppas. A model with a Choppa increases it's strength characteristics by 1 for each first round of close combat. This does not apply to mounts of any kind. It applies to magical weapons as well. Fear Elves: Any Elven Unit causes fear for a unit with this special rule. Size matters: Orks never have to pass a panic test caused by a unit that is only composed from goblins or creatures ridden by goblins (that goes for the arachnarok spider as well) Big'unz You may have one unit total per army. Units Ork Warbosses (any kind) Profile the same. Orc Warbosses have light armour, black orc warbosses heavy armour as standard loadout. Waaagh! Special rule. Once per game, a Orc Warboss who is the army general of any kind (Savage or Black or Vanilla) may declare a Waaagh, after he declared a valid charge. For the rest of the turn all units of Boar Boys (any kind) or Orcs (any kind) that have at least 5 models gain +1 on their combat resolution. The Generals unit gains +D3 instead. (Yes, that rule is lame.) Suppress Animosity (Black Orc Characters) If a unit fails their animosity check, the Boss deals D6 S5 hits, that may not be allocated to the boss and never cause panic. Shaman - no change. I don't know if it was the case earlier, but great orc shaman may mound a wyvern now. Orcs: Arrar Boys Boss gains +1 BS instead of +1 A/WS Boar Boys: No changes in stats. Come with a hand weapon and light armour at moderate point costs. Big un upgrade and weapons upgrades are a little cheaper. Overall I personally still don't deem them worthy... Orc Chariot No changes. Keeps spears and the option on 3rd crew member. Black Orcs Points dropped (or point drop), gained ItP Savage ORcs Savage orcs gain the impact-spear. It’s a unit upgrade that can be taken once. The unit deals D3 S5 impact hits (which deal D3 wounds at large creatures) as long as it has at least 1 rank of 5 models behind the first.. You have to nominate 1 model that causes the hits at the beginning of close combat. Savage Boar Boys Savage Boar Boys gain +1 attack from fighting with 2 handweapons, but they suffer casualties for dangerous terrain on a roll of 1-2. Goblin Bosses (any kind) - no changes. They may NOT declare a Waaagh. Goblin Shaman Night Goblin Shaman now have magic shrooms (don't know what they are called) as a default loadout. they have to take one at east attempt to cast a spell. They add D6 on their casting attempt. This is not counted a power dice and therefore may not trigger irresistible force. If the goblin rolls a 1 for the shroom he loses a wound on a roll of 4+ and the cast is automatically considered a miscast (meaning it fails) as long as he doesn't roll irresistible force with the power dice. Goblins Upgrade costs at the same price as skaven clanrats. Night Goblins may get to pic either bows or spears for free instead. Sneaky Gitz (those new chars) are treated as characters and may not leave the unit. They are hidden just as skaven/DE assassins, but have to be revealed at 1st round of cc. they may be targeted individually. They gain killing blow at first round of combat. They have a S of 3, 2 A, WS 2. Goblin Wolfriders remain light cavalry with 4+ AS. Goblin Chariots the same, same options. Rock Lobba - the same Spear Chukka: If you roll a 1 to hit you roll on the misfire chart of Stonethrowers from the rulebook. Doom Divers Fires like a Stonethrower, but still deals D6 S5 hits with no AS allowed. You may hit several units with the doom diver theoretically, as you use his base (the winged guy on the skimemr base) to determine who's hit. Spider-Riders May move across obstacles and Buildings without penalties, but not end their movement atop of them (or in them) They can fight in buildings and keep all benefits from being mounted. Mount and rider count as 1 model. Arachnarok Spider Where to start? ItP, causes Terror, Large Target, Stubborn, Fast Movement, Wallclimber (may move over buildings like Spider Riders), Poisoned attacks (spider only) All attacks in CC are fought against the Spider. You cannot attack the goblin crew in any way. If it's mounted by a great shaman the shaman is hit by all ranged attacks on a roll of 5+ It has a Crew of 8 goblins armed with bows and spears. Poisoned blow: before rolling to hit with the spider you have to pick one of its attacks and roll that separate. This attack deals multiple wounds (D6) Netlobber is a Stone thrower with S 1(3), units hit suffer from always strikes last until the End of the spiders NEXT turn (3 rounds of cc totally). It may fire and move, but not march. Misfire means it just doesn't fire at all. Shrine: +2 to channel for all friendly mages within 12", shaman on top gains Master of Lores Fanatics: The same as before, only that they are counted as being in light cover. Squigs: No characters may join squig herds. Squig Rider cavalry, skirmishers. If you roll a triple 6 for movement, each squig causes impact hit (1) Giant Cave Squig: A character mounted on a giant cave squig may join squig riders. If he does the unit may reroll their movement roll. Squig fanatics: S6, T4, W3. They move 3D6 inches until they come in contact wit a unit. From there on they act like fanatics. Counting to be in light cover. Work like fanatics, only that they deal 2D6 S6 armour piercing attacks. Trolls: Same as before Stone Trolls: 5+ scaly save, MR (2) River Trolls: as before. Snotlings: Special Choice. Boom shroom: Boom shrooms are a thrown wapon that hits automatically and ignores armour saves. snotling chariot several upgrades, like dealing stronger impact hits, first impact hits ignore armour saves, more movement, etc. Gorbad Ironclaw His weapon grant him ASF, ignores Armour saves and causes multiple wounds (d3) Works as General and BSB within 18 inches all the time you may field as many biguns as you want with Gorbad as long as he lives all units within 18 inches from him get a bonus of his current wounds on their rolls on the animosity chart. Azhag Lvl 3 Wizard using lore of death all orcs within 18 inches of Azhag have to reroll failed animosity checks Wurzhag Lvl 4 wizard Furry Squig: may store up to 1 power or dispel dice per (regarding who's turn it is) to be used in the next magic phase. (either as a power or dispel dice) Has MR (3) and may reroll miscast rolls. 5+ wardsave through his warpaint His mask contains the spell "Destructive Glare", see magic section later on. Wurrzagh's Fury: Curse spell, 8+. all enemy casters within 12 " have to roll 1 d6. They are removed from play with no saves allowed on a roll of 6, including their mounts. For each killd wizard Wurrzhag gains 1 die in his furry squig, and the capacity for stored dice is increased by 1. Grom no change, but he may declare a Waaagh which affects all Goblin infantry or Calvary in addition to all orc units. Skarsnik Skarsniks weapon contains a bound spell, level 5: Deals D3 S6 hits with no armour saves allowed. Increased to D6 hits if he'S within 12 " to a night goblin horde. At the beginning of the game roll a D6 for each enemy unit. On a roll of 6 they are delayed and arrive in their owners 1st turn via reinforcements. Nightgoblin Units that rallied after choosing 'flee' may move after regrouping, as if they were light cavalry. Snagla Magotspitta Spider cavalry character. (he's a hero choice, not an upgrade.) he has poisoned attacks and dals multiple wounds (D3) - he has a one time thrown weapon with the same rule. He has to join a unit of spider cavallery. They get hatred (Imperium). Gitilla the Hunta Wolfrider Character He and his unit of wolf riderz gain +1 BS and may reroll flee and persuit rolls. HE has a Sultiple shots (3) Bow Grimgore Ironhide Looses 2 Attacks and drops in points. Same weapon, same armour. He has a choppa (and therefor S8 in first round of combat...) He may declare a Waaagh! He has to join a unit of Black Orcs, and no other character may join that unit. The unit gains hatred (everyone, every last of 'em) and increases it's weapon skill by 1 (yes, that's for free) Magic I'm sorry, I don't know casting values. The small Waaagh! Sneaky thievery: After a small waaagh spell is successfully cast (and not dispelled), roll a D6. You gain 1 powerdice on a roll of 5+, while your opponent loses a dispel dice. if he has no more dispel dice, this has no effect. Base spell: Naughty Stabbing targeted unit within 12 inches gains armour piercing attacks. In addition they may reroll hits and wounds when they attack an enemy in the flank or rear. 1st spell: Destructive Glare magic missile, 24". Deals 2D6 S3 hits, or if boosted, 3D6 S3 hits. 2nd spell: Gift of the Spider God targeted friendly unit gets poisoned attacks, or the effect of existing poison is increased to 5+. 3rd spell: Itching Targeted enemy unit reduces it's Movement and Initiative characteristics by D6 (minimum of 1). Units with the random movement rule reduce the dice rolled to determine their movement by D3 (and still suffer D6 penalty on their I score) 4: Gork will fix it: Targeted enemy unit has to reroll all To hit, to wound and armour saves of 6. 5: Nightshroud. casters unit is treated as being in light cover. All enemy units getting in b2b ontact with the affected unit have to take a test for dangerous terrain. May be expanded to all friendly units within 12". 6: Bad Moon's Curse RiP, Magic Whirl. 3" template, moved 4D6 in a straight line away from the caster in a direction of his chosing. All models touched by the template have to pass a test on the following characteristic, or louse one wound with no AS allowed (roll a D6 to determine the characteristic): 1-2: Initiative 3-4: toughness 5-6: strength. May be boosted to 5" template and characteristic of the wizard's chosing. Big Waagh! As long as there are more Orc units in CC than there are fleeing Orc units the strength characteristic of all spells from the big Waaagh is increased by 1. Base Spell: Mork (or Gork)'s gaze: Draw a 4D6" line away from the caster. Each model touched suffers a S4 hit. May be boosted to 6D6 1st spell: Brainbursta: Pick one enemy model within LoS and 18". Targeted model gains 1 S5 hit. May boost range. 2nd spell: Gorks Fists: Caster gains +3A, +3 S and 6+ ward save. RiP. 3rd spell: Gorks hand: Pick one model from the first rank of targeted friendly unit. Place it with alignment of your choosing within 3D6 inches of former location, and arrange the unit in same formation around it. May be boosted to 5D6. 4th spell: Headbutt Targeted enemy caster within 4D6 inches suffers a S4 multiple wounds (D3) hit without AS. Range may be boosted to 6D6. 5th spell: Let's get going: Affects all friendly orc units within "d& inches. They may reroll to hit rolls in Close combat. 6th spell: Gorks Feet. Place the Gork's Feet template (yes, it's back.) within 36 inches of the shaman, and scatter it D6 inches. all touched models suffer a S6 hit that causes multiple wounds (D3) afterwards, roll a D6. 1: Gork Slippes (or was shoved by Mork) and stomps upon one of your own units 2-3: Gork Wanders off (spell ends) 4+: stomp again (either a different unit, or the same one.) Haven't been through the items yet, and my head is killing me. Enjoy =) Magic items: Originally Posted by bakaryu Hi there first time poster! I got to look at the book today so I can fill you in about the magic items: Battleaxe of the Last Waaagh! - (Weapon) +d6 to Strength and Attacks, half that bonus as penalty to weapon skill Basha's Axe of Stunty Bashin' - (Weapon) +1 Strength and Attack, double that bonus plus fear vs Dwarves Armour of Gork - (Armour) +d3 Toughness (roll first time you are hit in the turn and that bonus stays for the entire turn), also gives Impact Hits (d6) Lucky Shrunken Head - (Arcane Item) Ability I cannot remember, also increases Savage Orc Warpaint ward save from 6+ to 5+, increases Wurrzag's to 4+. Savage Orc shaman or great shaman only. Morks Spirit Totem - (Banner) Unit gains Magic Resistance d6 (rolled first time the unit is hit by a spell, lasts the whole turn). Also no enemy magic items in base contact with bearer will work. Spider Banner - (Banner) Goblin BSB only (specifically says night goblins cannot take it). Unit gains Poisoned Attacks. Bad Moon Banner - (Banner) Night Goblin BSB only. Unit gains stubborn and soft cover. Models that charge into base contact with unit must make dangerous terrain test. Skull Wand of Kaloth - (Enchanted Item) At beginning of combat phase pick a model in base to base with user, Ld test or die no saves of any kind allowed. User also causes terror.
Seems to be pretty much all changes in the new book. However I agree with Hoverboy that your tips and tricks for facing them seem a bit outdated. For example the magic has been completely reworked, which renders the advice of never letting waaaagh through kind of meaningless. Other than that I think the O&G will have some massive blocks of fairly tough opponents and some huge tarpit units. Top that of with the greatest range of units in the game and a O&G could deal with anything. But they have never been as strong overall as the LM and it doesnt seem like if they will be either in the future books. It however looks like a fantastic army and I am considdering starting and army of my own.
animosity now has only a 1:36 of causing a unit to deal the str3 hits to a friendly unit, everything generally got cheaper across the board except for basic orcs. goblins now have a spell similar to purple sun and hand of gork which can move a unit behind the enemy facing them for a rear charge. all in all they got a boost so far, ill now more on march 5th when i get the new book
Just don't start panicing. GW has never, in all it's versions, made Orcs and Goblins an army of unsurpassed magnitude of unbeatability. In fact Generally speaking I think it's pretty safe to say Orcs and Goblins have never been a tier 1 force except on the odd occasion where someone who had been playing for endless years knew the army inside and out. In fact if you look at the tournament trends the two places where O&G get the most wins is in the beginning when all the new tricksy stuff is somewhat unknown and just before a new army book is release because the generals who stuck with the army got everything squared away. In short, don't count your green eggs before the goblin smashes them.
Thanks for the read through on the new O&G army book. It was very instructive and if I ever face them on the battlefield in the near future, I'll know what to expect a little bit better! That being said, is anyone else surprised by the very small number of magical items in the army book??? When 8th came out, I was pleased that they added many common magical items. I told myself that, once each new army book came out, it would allow for a number of sweet combos and we'd see less x and y are the only viable option. With the O&G book out, I'm kinda disapointed. I was looking for Lizardmen to get numerous sweet items like they always should and it seems like we won't be getting them. Anyone else disappointed?
I think it makes sence. O&G arent supposed to have an enormous array of magical items to call on. They are not known to be master crafters and they are more bent on destruction than creation. Therefor they have only made a few magical items in their history (the ones in the AB) while they have stolen a whole bunch of less rare items from other races (the ones in the rulebook). If I got to decide I would make it so the HE, Dwarves and LM among others got more items (around 20) while O&G and Beastmen get realy few (below 10). This does not mean I think the LM should be more powerfull (I usually make the point that many of our units are underpriced) but giving a different amount of items to different races would add more flavour to the armies.
Not to mention that generally speaking there are certain items which players tend to focus on and once they've made their build designs they generally don't alter. There are a few builds which people tend to change to but from what I've noticed (in myself and in my opponents) is that generally people find what they like and stick with it.