I don't know if its my list,my tactics or just bad luck, but I cant seem to beat my friends HE. We have played a bunch of times now, and he seems to always wipe the table with me. We use ETC rules for our games.... I do now know his full list but from what I remember he has..... big block of Spearmen block of Swordmasters block of those lion dudes. 2x10 Archers 3 Bolt Throwers 2 Great Eagles I have.... Slann 2x Scar vets about 140pts each 2x 30 Saurus 2x 10 Skink Skirmishers 2x7 Chameleons 26 Temple Guard 3 Terradons 2 Salamanders here what tends to go down......I kill his bolt throwers with my chameleons, and if I am lucky his eagles as well. But I do not know how to deal with the sword masters and lions....whenever I get into combat they tend to wither me down to nothing. Are there any tips, or suggestions you can give me to help me out? I have a couple ideas.. a) drop my scar-vets for some more troops/skinks b) Find some points to give my Saurus spears for a bigger combat hit
I know hardly anything about ETC, but I did write this on fighting HE's http://www.lustria-online.com/threads/high-elf-tactica-detailed.9112/ I don't think Repeater Bolt Throwers are very powerful (mainly a threat to cavalry). Try making killing them a low priority and redirect your Chameleon Skinks and Skirmishers to thin out the Sword Masters and see how that goes (with the HE army list you described, the Swordsmaster should be your primary shooting target and the White Lions your primary magic target). The downside of ignoring the RBTs is that your Terradons will be fairly vulnerable, you may want to drop them if you go that route. I'd try dropping a Scar Veteran for a Skink Priest. Heavens spells are good in small doses and you can use the lore attribute to bash his Eagles while only half trying. I'd try a block of Skroxigor for the White Lions (or Sword Masters but ideally the SM should be shot up enough that the Sauri can handle them). The Strength 6 attacks would go to waste against against puny Skinks and the Kroxigors would negate all the White Lion's armor save.
So, I did some thinking last night and I thought up a new list Slann (w/Focus of Mystery, The Focused Rumination) Skink Priest (w/ Cube of Darkness) Skink Priest (w/ Lvl 2, Blood Statuette, Plaque of Tepok) *Hides in a block of saurus* Skink Priest (w/ Ruby Ring, Dispel Scroll) *Goes with a flanking skirmisher unit* 2x 25 Saurus (w/ full command) 2x 10 Skink Skirmishers (w/ Javelins) 16 Skinks (w/ 2 Krox) 20x Temple Guard (w/Full command, Venom of Firefly) 2x 5 Chameleon 3x Terradons 2x Salamanders One of the issues I found was that I had my all my army down by the time he finished placing his chaff..letting him line up to me. The skink priests will add a bit more hitting power to the skirmishers, as well as some dispel scrolls and neat things.
The skink priests add nothing to the skirmishers except giving up victory points. Anything in the HE book more expensive than an Eagle will crush a skink skirmisher unit, and Eagles have a good shot too unless you shoot them first. The priests do add some anti-magic, but generally I think spending more on the Slann is clearly better than the priests. As written, I see almost no value to the first priest- just put the cube of darkness on the Slann.
I concur, one supporting Skink priest is common practice, two is unusual but reasonable, three Skink Priests is excessive outside of Storm of Magic. You have picked some of the best magic items for Skink Priests to carry, but you can't have everything, so you need to leave some of the magical items in the temple vaults. Also, the Slann can carry magical items too. I generally like to field my skirmisher bunkers for Skinks with unit champions just in case. You don't want your Skink Priest to get challenged by an enemy unit champion because said champion has good chance of winning and then you give up underdog points. I think you need more Skinks in your Skroxigor unit. If you are not taking a Life Slann, 20 Temple Guard is probably not enough.
I was talking to some friends and came to that conclusion as well.... What about dropping 2 Skink Priests and adding a Scar-Vet on a cold one. and yes, I am running a Life Slann. Unfortunaty, the ETC guidelines puts rules on armies that more and more I am starting to dislike(one of which is you can only generate 2 extra PD/DD in the magic phase). But my community already started with it so I can't really help it. I can probably convince them to pick and choose some rules...but I am unsure.
I think that is a brilliant idea. If you want ideas for strong builds for the scar vet on cold one, there are plenty floating around this forum. My favorites are: Cold one, great weapon, Armor of destiry Cold one, great weapon, light armor, venom of the firefly frog, amulet of itzi, dragonhelm Cold one, burning blade of chotec, dawnstone, light armor, charmed shield Cold one, Pirana blade, banehead, light armor, shield In reality there iis no way to go wrong with a scar vet on a coldone, These are a solid place to start, but make sure to experiment and see what works for your army. Also ETC guidelines are very restrictive to lizards, but to be fair, we do have a stronger list than many other armies.
I'd base your army around three block, 30 skinks 3 krox, 24 TG and 25ish saurus. Skrox will kill the White Lions, TG in the center Saurus vs the spears or swordmasters Its strange your being out deployed, they have to deploy all warmachines at the same time. So you should have tons of drops. maybe you could even deploy your chamo skinks normally if you need to buy a bit more time.
What sort of magic support is he running? Personally I would stick with the original list you had in the first post and run Life or Light on the Slann. If the magic is tough grab Becalming Cogitation, otherwise Rumination + Mystery are fine. Life is a solid investment, but I would highly suggest switching out to Light as it has a number of utility spells right from the get go. Send your Skinks and Terradons after the Eagles first if possible, then the Swordmasters as suggested. The RBTs can be a pain but if you pick up the Sun Standard on the Temple Guard and screen your line with skirmishers you should be able to mitigate the worst of it. They shouldn't cause your rank and file too much hassle - but they'll ruin your Salamanders if given the chance. Bubble Pha's is helpful here. Your Saurus should be able to handle his core, whilst another unit can distract the White Lions or Swordmasters whilst you Dwellers/Banishment or poison them off, respectively. Run one Scar-Vet on a Cold One with Dawn Stone, Dragonhelm and a 15 point item of your choosing (I recommend Golden Sigil Sword to negate those dastardly re-rolls or at very least a potion of Speed). Give him an additional hand weapon if he doesn't have a magic one, and watch him rack up the CR. Just watch out for those RBTs. The other Scar-Vet can go on foot to give one of the Saurus even more punch: Amour of Destiny and XHW has a nice balance between killiness and toughness, or ASF sword and Glittering Scales is particularly infuriating for High Elves as it strips them of their re-rolls and makes your Scar-Vet harder to hit. Buffed by Light or Life, your Temple Guard should be able to match the White Lions - especially if you have been able to whittle them away with magic prior to this. Don't go crazy like 6-dicing Dwellers every turn, but keep up the pressure. You can do some fun things with the Champion too - with the Terrifying Mask the unit causes Terror, which means anything they charge might run away, and also Fear, which means anything they fight might end up WS1. May not seem like much, but the more Leadership rolls you force someone to make sooner or later they will fail. Baring in mind that the While Lions are Stubborn and will pass their unmodified LD8 most of the time, you want him rolling a lot. If you can, try to hold back a unit of skirmishers just in case you need to redirect the White Lions at a critical point, rather than needlessly engage them. If you can squeeze in some 50 point Skink Javelin units to do this as well, all the better. Skorxigor aren't really worthwhile unless he is running either cavalry or chariots. Don't worry about Spears - you want the 6+ ward over a handful of additional attacks. As far as deployment are concerned, here's some tips: start with the Terradons in one corner, then Skinks on the other end of the battle, then skinks back towards the Terradons, then Salamanders behind terrain. All of these units have high movement and maneuverability, so they can quickly reposition after turn one. Remember that Elves are all mouth: they can't get anywhere near as much as they give. Weather their attacks and you can smash them with whatever you have left. If you are running Life then your priority spells should be Throne, Flesh to Stone and Earthblood: everything else, including Dwellers and Regrowth, should just be used to draw out dispel dice. Try leading with Shield of Thorns because it can be cast into combat and will do damage before the Elves attack. A canny opponent will, of course, know to block Throne which is why, amongst other reasons, I suggest Light: Speed of Light is both a buff (easier for you to hit) and a debuff (harder to hit, no re-rolls against I10); Timewarp can give you a surprise charge, a bonus attack and strips ASF, and Pha's is a handy cheap buff (and the bubble version handy against mass ranged fire, as mentioned). These three should be your priority spells: Banishment and Net are good threateners, and even Burning Gaze will ruin an Elf's day (the long range version is especially useful against RBTs and Eagles alike!) Edit: Did I mention Net? Net is awesome. Net the Swordmasters - spend another turn shooting them. Profit! Whatever happens, take notes (pictures if possible!) so that we can see how it turns out!