8th Ed. I have some assorted Tactics/gaming questions

Discussion in 'Lizardmen Tactics' started by Jabroniville, Feb 5, 2013.

  1. Jabroniville
    Skink

    Jabroniville New Member

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    Hi there! I'm new to the forum (though I could swear I used to post here- I must be thinking of the other Lizardmen board that I forget the name of), and I've been scanning the first few pages of posts for some interesting stuff. I have some general questions that I wanted to throw out there, without making a separate post for each.

    For perspective. I've been playing for 6-8 years or so (at least since Sixth Edition), and have played games in the current edition 8-ish times, enough to gather the basics. I have a really big Lizardmen army with at least a bit of every unit: 60 Saurus, 21 Temple Guard, 5 Terradons, 3 Razordons & Salamanders each, 6 Chameleon Skinks, a billion Skinks, 12 Kroxigor (6 old & 6 new), 3 Stegadons (1 old one), 20 Saurus Cavalry, and a bunch of character models.

    My questions:

    1) I have 3 units of 20 Saurus for the older style, but I might shift them into 2 bigger units- Spears are still worth it for the extra attacks, right?

    2) Temple Guard are still typically in units of 20-ish, correct? I gathered that from the TG topics around here- they're quite pricey to be going larger, and they still miss some attacks because of the Slann, so I think it's more survivability than spamming out attacks.

    3) I never really had luck with my Chameleons in the last edition, but apparently they're much better now. The unit size is an issue for me (I barely got any before they stopped making them), but I tend to think that the cheaper Skinks make better war machine hunters.

    4) I'm always choosy about my units, and always find myself cutting things out of army lists. What are the general things you players are cutting out? I find the "multiple units of Chams/Salamanders" stuff interesting, but the cost seems prohibitive if I wanted to take anything else.

    5) How many characters do you typically use? I generally went Slann/Oldblood/Oldblood on Carnosaur with a smattering of Scar-Vets and a Priest or two in the older style, but had to cut out the Carnosaur & Oldblood because of point limits (we usually play 3,000, though I could field 4,000 if I needed to, but my friends don't have that many troops yet).

    6) I never had luck with the Skink/Kroxigor unit- I found that ALL of my foes would just ignore the Krox attacks and just kill a dozen Skinks for easy Combat Res, leaving the powerfulKroxigor unable to get that many kills back. Yet players here talk about how effective they can be- are their just some combats you should be aiming for with them? I can see them being handy for making points on Core Requirements, but all of our Core is decent aside from the Skink Cohorts.

    7) How often do you horde up? I hear EVERY other army is doing this constantly these days, but it seems excessive for our troops that are either pricey (Saurus & TG) or weak (Skinks), and I get the sense that few Lizardmen players do it unless it's a reform to max out attacks on another Horde. Do Skink/Krox Hordes do okay?

    8) How many Stegadons do you take per game? I like Monsters, and with the Carnosaur being harder to use, I often have the Engine of the Gods & a regular Steg out there to draw fire and kill stuff. My old fave tactic was to use the Steg & Kroxigor beside each other and throw them in simultaneously, but that's trickier with more variable Charge Ranges.

    9) Saurus Cavalry is really great, but very pricey with the disadvantages of Cavalry in this Steadfast, Hording world. Are they still a great unit, or just a possible side thing these days? Are units of 5 or 10 better?

    Thanks for reading my possibly-too-long post, and for any answers!
     
  2. Ferocious
    Temple Guard

    Ferocious New Member

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  3. Arli
    Skink Priest

    Arli Moderator Staff Member

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    First, Welcome to the forum. The other site would probably have been the Pyramid Vault (It is mostly gone now, occassionally you will see some stuff from over there). Now to the questions:

    1. Spears are a personal preference, personally, I would rather have the hand weapon and shield (It only gives the 6+ parry, but hey, I will take it). However, if you are going to use them, make sure to use them in a horde formation (10 wide and at least 4 deep). Horde formation gets to attack in the third row, but spears also allow the fourth row (IIRC).

    2. Temple Guard are awesome, but only with a Slann in the ranks to make them stubborn. I have 25 Temple Guard currently. I would like another 10 or so. I try to surround my slann when he is in the unit with two temple guard to either side.

    3. Chameleons are my favorite models. They are the reason I chose Lizardmen in the first place. In 8th edition, they are hands down the best shooters. I actually own 30 chameleons. 5 of them are conversions, the rest came from ebay. When you use them, split them into 2 units of 5 or more. The two units allows for them to chose seperate targets or go for a single target without all of the eggs in one basket.

    4. I never take cold ones, when I cut something, it is usually from my core choices though. I will take the base core for my points level, then max out on everything else. I will also include my chameleons and salamanders before other special or rare troop choices. I always take at least 2 salamanders. 4 or 6 in higher point games.

    5. My first addition is usually a Slann. I will max him out if possible. If I am at a higher points value, I may take an oldblood, but most times, I will not. I will take two priests (at least). One will have a scroll and one will have the cube. I will take the EOTG if it is a higher level game as well. If I take a third priest, he will always have the forbidden rod and the talisman of 4+ vs the first wound. I will take one or two scar-vets, mainly to buffer any challenges against my slann. I like to play the occasional skink chief as well. It can be a nasty little surprise for an opponent in a unit of Skrox.

    6. I love the skrox unit. Here’s why: Immune to fear/causes fear, immune to stomp, immune to the dreaded 13th spell, the units are FAST. Sure, the skinks die by the bucket full, but the unit is a strong one. Try taking a larger unit of them. I generally run 3 kroxigors and about 40 skinks. On a few occasions, I will take massive units of skrox (4 kroxigors and about 65+ skinks). I have watched opponents run from those units on several occasions. Quite fun!

    7. See #6 about a skrox horde. I only really like one horde. Saurus with HW and shield Horde is fun to play. I will sometimes put a couple of scar-vets in the unit, add a Slann BSB (with the crown of command for stubborn), and turn a horde unit of saurus into a mini-Temple Guard unit. The number of characters forces the slann into the second rank (unless in actual horde formation). I will start this unit out at about 45 saurus. Then, when needed, reform to 10 wide.

    8. I only really use Stegaons as character mounts. The EOTG being the best, however, a Skink Chief with the warspear is really great. Those Impact hits devastate Elves very effectively.

    9. Cold one cavalry are too expensive and not worth the trouble unless you take at least 10 and add a scar-vet or two.


    Hope this helps. If you have any other questions, please let us know.
     
  4. david l
    Chameleon Skink

    david l New Member

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    1. I don't think a size 20 Saurus unit has much value. Bigger is better. But even a big Saurus unit should not be expected to be awesome in combat - they are only strength 4 and they don't hit much.
    I think spears are never worth it. I'd rather have the 6++ parry save. But it can be argued spears have value in big units; certainly not at size 20.

    2. TG only with Slann, but a Slann does not require TG.

    3. I certainly would not call them better, because they had much better deployment rules in 7th. They are a good choice that is worth their points, but they cost little, so don't expect lots from them.

    4. Saurus is what I cut first.

    5. Slann plus mounted scar-vets. Maybe a cheap skink priest scroll caddy.

    6. Take enough skinks to be Steadfast and fight an enemy where the Kroxigor kills matter. SKrox units are NOT for fighting big infantry blocks, especially hordes.

    7. Never horde. Units with great weapons should be in horde, we don't have those. With Saurus having 2 attacks base, supporting attacks are always less valuable relatively, and horde just doesn't do as much.

    8. I like Stegadons and usually field multiple. But when the enemy has the right weapon (cannons, etc) they pretty much suck.

    9. Saurus Cavalry are NOT a great unit. I tried them for a while and dropped them for another scar-vet or another steg. The solo scar-vet is better than the unit. In theory the big unit with multiple characters can work, but then the value of the unit is just hit points against shooting.
     
  5. david l
    Chameleon Skink

    david l New Member

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    Looking at the posts a little more, I think two of just repeated what Ferocious said first.
     
  6. Jabroniville
    Skink

    Jabroniville New Member

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    Cool- thanks for the suggestions! It's a pity about the Saurus Cav (I used to love taking a unit of 10 to scare my enemy into shooting them & my monsters, then a unit of 5 to run around unhindered that would flank people in 7th edition), but I assume we'll get cheaper ones once they hopefully give us a cool Dark Elf-lookin' set :).

    Ooh- another question- are Jungle Swarms any good? I kinda like how I painted mine (I copied real animal colours), but I can't imagine them lasting long against stuff for more than 1 round, limiting their use as tar pits.


    I have this set-up for an upcoming game against my friend's Vampire Counts:

    Slann (probably Light Magic, Cube, BSB, Loremaster & Extra Power Dicey) & Oldblood (I usually put him in the Slann/TG unit with +2 Attacks since Undead rank & file are sucky fighters)
    2 Scar Veterans (one with GW and Venom, other with +1 Attack & Enchanted Shield), Priest on Engine of the Gods & Dispel (almost default against an Undead army)
    25 Saurus
    25 Saurus (Spears)
    2 x 10 Skink Skirmishers (to harass & kill smaller units and get in the way of things)

    20 Temple Guard
    Stegadon
    6 Kroxigor

    3 Salamanders (are they that great against Hordes? It seems like the length of those units might be trickier since they're more long & skinny unless you get on the flank, and I know my friend's considering Skeleton Hordes)

    (for some assistance, I know my friend can only Horde Skeletons & maybe Ghouls, has few Zombies, he has the Banshee/Wraith unit at 4 strong, C. Horrors but no Vargeists, ALWAYS uses a Vargulf & Grave Guard, that Area Effecting Chariot thing but no Black Coach, and he's given up on using a Zombie Dragon at only 3,000 points)

    Does this list look okay? I know people seem to be down on Oldbloods, but with Vampires I figured I'd need a more fighty Lord out there. I don't see much use in Chameleons since VCs are War Machine-lite and I don't see them bringing down the Vargulf/Crypt Horrors, and my friend never has solo Characters running around. A Skink/Kroxigor unit seems dangerous against an army that can't flee (they had poor luck against Crypt Horrors one time as well).
     
  7. Aunshi
    Skink

    Aunshi New Member

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    Hello
    I have only one quick question, not worth a new topic.
    Can Priest use EoG (concretely Burning alignment) if is he engaged in fight?

    Thanks
     
  8. n810
    Slann

    n810 First Spawning

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    --yes--


    :chicken:
     

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