8th Ed. Is this legal?

[Juhaaha]

I just figured out something, tell me what do you guys think, and tell me is this legal or not

Slann w/ Stubborn crown in large unit of saurus warriors. When hitty enemy (Chosen, Grave Guard, White lions etc.) closes in, they reform into 2 wide X deep formation (champ and some other command model in front rank, musician/standard is in 2nd rank, slann in 3th, since there's no room for him in 2nd rank)

Now, Enemy must nominate attacks vs Champion, and max. 9 20mm based models in horde formation can actually strike saurus warriors.

Champ is killed, slann is moved in 2nd rank, but cant still be hitten, except in challange.


IF this is legal, what does this mean? Well, this is certainly a nice counter vs. hitty units I've always struggled to battle against.

 

[mixer86]

No its not legal.

Slaan HAVE to go in the front rank of ANY unit he joins EXCEPT for temple guard due to the sacred duty special rule concerning templ guard. so if you went 2 by X ranks, the slaan has to go at the front. it states this in the lizard army book i believe, not got it to hand though.

Sorry, interesting idea though.

 

[strewart]

You could debate the legality, since command models have to go in the front even more than characters... But there isn't much point. Assuming it is legal, its not a very effective setup. With only 2 wide oyu do not get rank bonuses, and therefore no chance of steadfast on top of it. Additionally, enemies can attack you corner to corner, so against a 25mm foe they get 8 to attack (2 ranks) to your 4. Against 20mm... Well, they also get 8 attacking to your 4. They hit you with more attacks, they are automatically 3 up from ranks, pretty sure you wouldn't get the Slann leadership since he is neither in the front rank or in the second rank of TG, and you will have very long 'train' flanks vulnerable to attack. The unit will flee and die easily.

 

[Juhaaha]

Well, That's the point why slann has the Stubborn crown.

edit: Quick Seach from lizzy book didnt say that slann has to go in front rank and rulebook says that command models MUST be in front rank if possible, but that would be ok with me too, since Etheral slann in front rank, enemy cant hit SWs and slann would be in challange

edit2: this formation is IMO effective vs hard hitting enemy, reducing their attacks a lot and locks them in combat for whole game if you're lucky

 

[mixer86]

it says it in the slaan section i think. he definately has to go in front rank unless with temple guard.

ethereal is all well and good but any character or champion will more than likely have a magical weapon, so it would negate that.

 

[Juhaaha]

It says only that Slann is allways placed in second rank if in Temple guard box

 

[mixer86]

and that if he's in any other unit, he's placed in the front rank as normal for every other character

 

[Juhaaha]

Oh, I missed that one. But which one goes in front rank, champ+ X command model or slann? Comand group is ALLWAYS placed in front rank (as per rulebook) and slann is placed if front rank as normal.

 

[mixer86]

i think this is where you have to say the formation isn't legal, as you say both the slaan and the command MUST be in the front rank.

 

[Juhaaha]

Slann doesnt HAVE to bee in front rank, since he is "placed in front rank as normal", and rulebook says that if there's no room for character to be placed in front rank, then he's placed in 2nd (in this case, 3rd)

 

[strewart]

and that if he's in any other unit, he's placed in the front rank as normal for every other character

Yes 'as normal for every other character' is the key. If you have a look at page 97 in the BRB, on character placing in units, it says they go in the front rank but priority is given to command models, any that don't fit go in the second rank. So if you make your unit 2 wide, the champion and standard will go in the front rank, the Slann behind.

I still maintain that with your own diminished offensive capability, and lack of ranks, the unit will not actually survive all that long. Anything that also has s/t4 and 4+ armour will do more wounds than you (as I mentioned, they will have more in contact) and will already be 3 up in static combat res due to ranks. Anything that is hard hitting will give you even more of a deficit. If it were ever worth taking infantry less than 5 wide, lots of people would do it.


Ok made this post before the last two appeared, it is legal to put excess characters in the second rank if there is no room in the first. Have a look at the page I referenced above.

 

[Juhaaha]

I dont mind losing offensive capasity if I can minimize incoming attacks from Chosen horde.

 

[BEEGfrog]

It might be easier to put 2 or 3 units into battle with the chosen horde to have a chance of beating them. The only way to meet a chosen horde head to head with a single lizzie unit is with a buffed TG unit with the slann keeping the combat buffs in place and regenerating all the chopped up TG as fast as the chosen turn them to sushi.

A better tactic would be to avoid fighting them until you have killed everything else in the army as the points rolled into a chosen horde will mean he doesn't have a lot left. Sacrificing a small unit or two to keep the big nasty expensive unit tied up is a small price to pay.