8th Ed. Jungle Swarms- Are these critters of any use in 8th?

As per the title: Are jungle swarms of any use in the new edition?

Does anyone here use them and if so, for what purpose?

I´m looking forward to your replies.

Greetz, the Maniac

 

well back in 7th, i'd use them as a screen for the EotG and once the opponent gets into combat with them, the eotg is right behind blasting away with burning alignment. it usually takes about 2 turns for them to get through and by the time they finally hit the eotg its already under half its size. the best part is when there is a line of combats going and all the blocks take hits. it probably still could be used in this edition but i have yet to try my tactic again in 8th because i'm still trying to figure out what's useful.

 

i'm surprised they survived that long for in even in 7th, now with 2 attacking ranks that number is going down.... fast. and at that price... if they weren't worth it in 7th, now you can probably just get a permanent marker and make a big X on the page with their rules .... unless you want them for fun... they are little snakes... lots of little snakes... they look fun

 

i don't think there is an exception to supportning attacks regarding swarms, i think they only get 1 in teh 2nd rank, not sure tough, don't have the book nearby

 

*Purges hands to pick up the holy tome*

Nope, extra supporting attacks are called monstrous support and are a special rule of monstrous infantry only. Just noticed that swarms are skirmishers thus now move with the gap between models. Not sure if that effects how useful they are at all..

As mentioned, they were pretty useless in 7th ed, in fact I always forget they are even part of the list, and I don't see them being any better now. It is a good point that with stepping up and the charger no longer going first, swarms are going to get hit by a lot of attacks all the time which if anything decreases their little use further.

 

They might be a sneaky way of taking out an unsuspecting war machine..?
If you could get all 3 in base contact that would be 15 poison attacks,
and they are unbreakable... If only we had some spell that could increase
toughness or strength... or better yet a spell that let you use their
leadership as toughness... (I'll wait while you look up their LD stat).

 

Swarms pay 9 points for a wound. Saurus pay 11 points for a wound.

Saurus don't crumble, have toughness 4, have a save, can deal damage etc.

Swarms do not work as a tarpit.

If you want a harassment unit, terradons or chameleon skinks are better.

 

if you want to increase S and T (by 1) you need lore of beasts on the slann... wich means you lose 1 spell by deafult since he can't hast the transformation.
if you want to use Ld as STRENGHT then you need lore of shadows... again... not the best lore to use, not to mention that if th enemy is chaos and ahs the third eye of tzeench you just game him the it of shades against you.
also, 5 attacks per base at S10 means 4's to hit usually, IF any of them survive being hit on 3's and probably wounded on 2's.
and speedbump? they get charged, decimated in CC and then the opponent overruns. thats more of a speedboost

 

Ok relax man...
I know my memory of exactly what spell does what is a bit foggy.
(Could have sworn that was Toughnes.... )

Yea if you are playing against magic heavy Deamons of Chaos,
you probaly are going to loose the game if you are taking any fluffy units.
this goes for any army, not just us.

Yea we all know swarms probaly suck, the point is
are they any use at all?

you are never going to want to get them charged,
Altough they probaly have better initive than Saurus,
but then again what Doesn't ...

The best thing I can think to do with then is charge a
block of something in the flank with them,
only one rank will be able to hit you and hopefull with only one attack.
so swarms have what 3 or 5 wounds...?
you should have a wound left so you can strike back with.
Stats sugest that they would be more effective than 2 ranks of Cohorts
in a similar situation, as far as attacks go...

Even then thy would die to crumbeling... (Darn you 8th edition)

Like a lot of 8th edition you have to use combined charges,
if you have a unit engages with saurus in the front and swarms on a flank,
I could see them as posibly being effective, since they will probaly
only have 3 or 4 attacks comin their way and the saurus block
should keep them from crumbleing to combat res.

The best advantage I can see them having is their small size...
with all the true like of sight rules they can hide behind the tinyest of terrain,
also being skirmishers attacking a unit in a forest will be to their advantage,
perhaps they would be good at attacking skirmishers then...?

 

Hmmm would Lore of Light affect the unit of Swarms? Making their WS 10 and their Initiative 10 would seem like something a little bit more scary.. But the sad thing now is that because of True Line of Sight they no longer are really any kind of 'screen' for our units..

And please, refresh me on the whole idea of crumbling? Where can I find this in the RB?

Edit: Bibamus, I believe he said Strength OR Toughness, which would mean every ones precious little Lore of Life as it raises Toughness of units

 

"And please, refresh me on the whole idea of crumbling? Where can I find this in the RB?"

It's under the Section on Swarms in the BRB, /It used to be called the Crumbeling rule,
I think it was renames Squish under 8th edition, basicly think of one swarm as 5 zombies
and you get the idea, combat ress literaly kills your unit.

 

I used to find swarms very effective in 7th- at 2000 pts I fielded 2 bases, and used them either to screen my Salamander packs, or to chase single enemy mages. For only 90 points, I really found these guys earnt their points.

But in 8th edition, I would reckon you would need at least 4 bases to be effective, and at 180 points, there are better things to spend the points on. I might rustle together another base at some point to trial, but I don't hold out much hope for them in 8th, codex dependant.

 

Bleh, and with true line of sight now they aren't going to be blocking anything at all. Unless you model them on rocks.

One useful feature of them is their poison, a swarm of 3-4 might be good to charge a monster like a giant or something. Puts a LOT of poisoned attacks into it and just might kill him. Also remember now, even though they are s2 a roll of a 6 to wound always wounds, even against t10.

Still, you are probably better off with skinks in any case.

 

Weather you can see over them or not,
Isn't it a -1 penalty to shoot over models???
or is that just models of similar size..?

 

I really like that idea of Okkam's Mindrazor on them... strength 10 poison attacks. Throw those suckas at a steam tank. I'm trying to envision how exactly that works... does the spell cause the tank commander to open up the hatch and let the swarms into the tank? If I ever feel myself gravitating towards Shadows lore, I might consider taking a couple swarms. Still think they are a bit too situational.

 

the flank charge think might be worth it depending on what you're facing. with saurus in the from 10 poision attacks might be worth itif you don't charge anything with more than 1 attack, still quite expensive even for that.

and the problem with spells is that they can be dispelled off them, or usefull somewhere else, very situational indeed