8th Ed. Krox and Skinks

How is everyone else running their Krox?

I am running a unit of 18 Skinks with 2 Krox and what I am finding is that they do not stick around.

They charge in and smack around a few guys but by the second round of combat the Skinks are getting squished for massive combat res and they inevitably end up running. Seems like a major waste of 200+ points.

Think I might just start running an 8 Krox unit.

Thoughts anyone?

 

Unfortunately Life Lore has been banned from our current league, so I am running Lore of Light.

I did run them into the front of a unit of Dwarf Hammers in conjunction with a unit of Saurus Warriors. They hung out for 1 turn, then a unit of Warriors with Great Weapons joined in the fight and it was all over.

 

24 Skinks, 3 Krox. I was fielding them 8 wide to "pad" the Krox (it just looked cool, and got heaps of attacks on my HE fried) but now i'm thinking i'll run them 6x6. It will keep them stubborn for hell long and I'm not losing too much.

That said, they can die easily, so you have to choose your opponents carefully.

That said, too, mine have munched on Swordsmasters before ^_^ (No, my HE friend does not like Kroxigors at all.... Or skinks, really).

 

Just one more group of p****s that prefer to cry and throw a temper tantrum than deal with what the RULES say. In my group we stick by the rules. Sure there are a few that really stink that makes certain aspects of certain armies to have a slight upper hand (Slann BSB w/ Standard of Dicipline, Terradons dropping rocks on a unit in a building getting no cover save, etc). But the rules were written down and printed out as they are for a reason. This is the main reason why I hate playing comp tournaments as it does nothing more than gather a bunch of whinners together so they can have a cry-fest.

Off my soap box...

I've found that Skrox units are particularly squishy and so I rarely use them if at all anymore. The skinks just give away too much in CR to justify the unit. And if you want to try and combat the CR by taking huge numbers of skinks now your pumping more points into a unit which your going to be skitish about placing into combat in the first place and end up going against units which are weak enough for the skinks to have a chance at surviving and thus you won't get half your points back.

All in all I've found a unit of 3-6 Kroxigors to be much more effective than a large Skrox unit.

 

I have my units with 24 skinks and 3 kroxigors, deployed 6x6. It synergizes very well will buff spells, especially those from the lore of life, and tends to stick around for a while. As you have life banned, light is probably the second-best option.

 

While SKrox units look great on the field, I've found them to be unreliable and would prefer to use the points on a unit of Saurus. When I playtested them, I ran 2 Kroxigor with 22 Skinks in a 6x5 unit. That's about 250 pts with a musician and standard, but the toughness 2 on the skinks meant they got chewed up very easily by shooting and CC.

Since the main benefit to this unit is that they are faster, and thus easier to get in for supporting/flank charges in theory, they definitely have a use. However, I tend to run a Slann with Lore of Light, and using Time Warp and Net to make the Saurus more mobile or pin your enemy down works better in my experience. Strength 6 and a poisoned stand and shoot can also be very nice at times though, so if you end up facing a lot of high toughness stuff, they still have an important role.

The Dwellers spell is potentially very nasty, but as a whole, I don't think Life is the most dangerous of the lores. Singling it out to be banned seems to be absurdly biased and would really screw over a Bretonian or Wood Elves player (and the last thing Wood Elves need with their current book in this edition is another disadvantage).

 

Yes I agree the ban of Lore of Life is a kick in the sack for a lot of players, especially Wood Elves.

There are approximately 36 players here in our San Diego league, they are broken up into 6 divisions of 6; and Lore of Life dominated the last league, everyone who could run Lore of Life was.

So the league judges got together and decided to ban the Lore for this round of the league to see how it goes. I personally would much prefer to play an unrestricted league using the "Rules As Written" but that does not look like it is going to happen anytime soon.

My prediction is that Purple Sun and Pit of Shades are going to dominate this league so I don't know how they will counter that next league. Guess we will see.

For anyone interested the restricted league rules we play are as follows:

2400 points

300 max Lord
300 max Hero
600 min Core
600 max Special (No duplicate Specials - yes this really screws HE and Dwarfs)
300 max Rare (No duplicate Rares)

100 max in magic items
1 magic lore is chosen at beginning of league (there are certain exceptions to this rule for O&G, WE, and VC)
Additional points for Lords, Hero duplicates Specials and Rares, new magic lore and additional magic items are won after each match (win or lose you get something randomly determined).
No special Characters maybe used.

It does make for a very challenging league.

Last league Lizrdmen and Beastmen were in the finals, Lizardmen won in the end.

 

That does seem rather extreme! Impossible to run a lot of lords and 900+ points of core...
High elves are really, really screwed as far as I can tell. With only 1 of each rare, so 150 points there, probably only 1 big special unit then some support, an under-equipped archmage by 60 points who can't run life, and a BSB because 300 isn't quite enough points to fit in two decent characters. That leaves pretty much 1200 points to devote purely to high elf core... And it's not very good.
Lizardmen don't suffer as much (high elves are the worst-case scenario pretty much), but still... An oldblood on carnosaur is too expensive and God knows that they aren't actually all that great. The only lord choice available is pretty much a Slann BSB with no extra disciplines and no magic items.
Suffice it to say that I don't agree with your league rules. That given, with nearly the whole armies of each side consisting of core, lizardmen should do pretty well. Our core is better than most.
~Grant

 

Luckily Krox and Skink units count as Core.
So here is my next couple of thoughts on the Skink/Krox debate.

Unit of 48 Skinks and 6 Krox.

Option 1:

1st rank of the unit 6 Skinks wide
2nd rank of the unit are Krox 3 wide
3rd rank of the unit are Krox 3 wide
4th, 5th and 6th of the unit 6 Skinks wide
So they have a total of 6 (or is it 8?) ranks and are going to out number and have more ranks that most other units I would run them into and be Stubborn 6.

My question though (bare with me all this running Skinks and Krox is new to me) -

If they are 6 Skinks wide and the next 2 ranks are Krox, after the 1st rank of 6 Skinks get squished does another rank of 6 Skinks run from the back to the front or are all attacks have to be directed at Krox now, considering the front rank has been wiped out?

This could make a big difference because that would help limit the amount of Easy Skink Combat Rez.

Option 2

I was just thinking of running them 10 Skinks wide as a Horde with the entire 2nd rank made up of Krox.

Thoughts or guidance?

 

you take casualties from the back in 8th, so no more "guys in the front die but guys in the back rush forward but cant attack" issues. skinks die until there are no more skinks (you always attack models in base contact with your own model or that is in base contact with someone in front of you, in the case of supporting attacks). id say itd be 6 ranks not 8 because while the krox itself takes the place of 4 skinks, it is in a row with only krox. odd i know, but those are the breaks for having mix units. (on the plus side, dreaded 13th wont work against you, so it all works out in the end). also krox are LD 7, so youd be stubborn at LD 7. the best way to run skrox units, imo, is either as flanking units (6 wide with 3 krox) or big game hunters/tar pits (5 or 10 wide depending on how many skinks you have to spare). with a horde you'll get 3 ranks, so the front 10 skinks, second rank of 5 krox and 3rd rank of 5 krox. the downfall is you are almost guaranteed to lose on combat res with skrox units that go in solo. with that in mind, numbers are your friend and keep that bsb close. you'll wear down anything with enough s6 krox attacks. and on the topic of banning lores and imposing rules for limiting what you can bring, i find it completely ridiculous. the rules are written so that everything has a potential counter, at least thats what ive come to realize. sure dwellers is nasty, but against units of 10-15 its a bit of a waste. or try fast troops to get into h2h where your safe. going against purple sun? make sure you leave those low I guys at home. it annoys me to no end when i hear people say certain things should be banned because they can't figure out how to beat them. thats half the fun for me when playing a competitive game and watching the guy across the table realize that big nasty unit is wasting away doing nothing. even teclis, broken as he is, can be beaten. yes hes nasty, and yes banner of the world dragon is a slap in the face to all those slann out there trying to hang with him, but run a small skrox unit into his and see how long he lasts against those GW. just my 2 cents .

 

And when your whole army (bar some skinks) is I 1-3? You're still losing out on more then 50% of the time (in some cases you're not bieng killed only 17% of the time). Another question being is what do Dwarfs do to Purple Sun? "Sure, they dispell it" I hear you say? Well, thanks to Mr. Powerscroll they can't. Just because something is said to be banned doesn't mean it's banned because no one can counter it.

You do realise that the nasty Teclis bunker doesn't have him B2Bable, right?
Those ASF PG attacks will mince Skinks like there's no tomorrow, and all the Nobles (that's the elven hero, right?) in the front (cause Teccie to go into the second rank [hence being "unkillable"]) will chew even mre up, basically decimating your small unit.
Sure, you can just send in a bigger unit, but you need to kill a Noble to get there. Then you need to be big enough to weather the attacks that are coming your way and stay Steadfast long enough to kill Teclis.
In short, it's not that he's un-counterable (infact, I can think of a few ways to get at him) but the point is if he isn't in there, people have a lot more fun.


OT:
Option 1 seems like a bit ofa waste to me, as having those 3 Kroxigor in the back (not being able to fight) is more-or-less wasting 165 points.
Perhaps taking 2 of the 24+ S and 3 K units, and using them in tandem would work better then a massive congo line unit?
Though, the Horde+Krox idea is a good one, IMO. Provided you've got enough backup skinks.

 

I agree, purple sun sucks against us, but run skrox units instead of saurus would help a good bit. And why can't dwarves dispel? Irresistible only applies to the turn it's cast on doesn't it? All they have to do is wait till their 'magic' phase. Yes, the teclis block is nasty and a tough nut to crack, but there are always ways to crack it. Oxoytl is perfect in that scenario. I guess I just don't like the idea of altering the rules to cater to 'non-competive' lists. Being tabled by a power list always sucks, but that just means you need to prepare a little better for that style of player. I've never heard of 40k stuff being banned and there's plenty of cheese there. And I agree, option 1 is a waste of 3 krox. Try running 6 wide, 3 krox, 30+ skinks. Or the horde, I've had success with both setups

 

Were it me I'd be giving those league organizers the finger (yup, they're number one) and go to either a differant league that isn't run by tards or start my own.

 

So, you're proposing running multiples of what's considered one of the worst CC units we have (out of ones that will likely end up there, naturally) to counted a spell that we may not even face, in a lore that we have 1/8 chance of coming up against? (that is obviously not taking into account any of player's Lore preferances, of "crappy" Lores)
That doesn't sound overly competative to me.

If you think that after Purple Sun has hit 1 Dwarf unit, that it hasn't done enough damage to warrant it's cost, then you may be mistaken.
They can dispell it the next turn, but if they can't keep it away all game, they have a serious problem. (even PoS screwed them)

So, you're recommending an overpriced turd-in-skink's-clothing to take out Teclis.....? Again, not competative, or likely to be used.... Ever, and chances are if he got close enough to use his blowpipe, something would kill him very shortly.

Well, it's the only option left, all the ideas you listed wont work in a tourney. The Skrox spam would waste (depeding on size, I presume 3 units of 24/3) something in the margin of 1000 points against anyone who doesn't pay the (270ish) points to get a Lord-Level caster and Purple Sun.
Oxyotl is the biggest waste of 160 points even, infact, i'd rather try my luck with a full skink army then field him (he would, of course, not be in the full skink army). And I mean literally just skinks. Nothing else.

So, you're basically admitting that one of the only ways to do it (besides real luck) is tailor your list to un-imagineable levels? And knowing you're facing a Teclis bunker would give away something in the margin of half your opp's army, or Purple Sun where you're compromising your army's sturdyness (T, basically) to dodge a spell that has a 17% chance to be rolled? Awesome. (Though, yes, there are quite a few loremasters out there).

In my GG we ban things all the time, well, not 'ban' per-se, but we make it clear what things are and arn't massivly OP and then the players choose from there.

We don't have anything banned, but in the spirit of a fun game, we will not use them, mostly. Really, it's the better way, IMO. And if a league really doesn't want something used, rather then ban it, they should 'modify' it, and incur penalties to using it: "Oh, you took Teclie, PG, and Nobles for screening? Cool, you lose x amount of points from total army points.


Anyway, I think I made the point that sometimes banning stuff is the easiest (and most fun way) unless you really want to wildly tailor to your opp, but then, where's the fun? You're running a list designed to cope with/ beat their? You might as well powergame.

LAST POINT: And don't try to argue with the whole "but they're there for a reason blah blah blah" stuff, everyone knows Matt Ward gets a head of himself and writes in stupid thing (Daemons). I know some of it isn't Ward, but he is responsible for Life, Power Scroll, etc. He's also responsible for massive cheese in 40K.

 

All valid points. My only point is that there are multiple ways to beat lists like that. Granted for a closed list tourny it's unrealistic to make a list to counter one specific army, not very fun. And yes skrox are hit or miss but they can be useful if used in a support role. Personally, against armies like that, I rely on my sallies and slann to pull me through. Every edition since I've played has had nasty combos that people dreaded playing against, no matter who writes the books. When gw writes rules, people always find ways to use and abuse them

 

Wow, someone woke on the wrong side of the bed. Actually I woke on the wrong side of th bed and your so angry I think you must have woke on the wrong side of the top bunk bed and fell off too.

Just because Ward or any other game designer makes some things you don't like doesn't mean you have to just arbitrarily play what you like. I don't like the fact that I can't walk into a store and take whatever I want and have to pay what the store asks because I think it should be cheaper. I don't like the fact that I have to pay taxes and that money goes to some people who claim disability or some other cockamaimy reason to filch my hard earned money so they don't have to work and still get money. I also don't like that Tomb Kings are the oldest army in the Warhammer game but GW updates newer army books first and let Tomb Kings and Bretonnians slide by the way side.

But all that doesn't mean I can steal, evade paying taxes or pick and choose what rules GW writes to play against. Life is the way it is and the rules and laws have been set up and investigated and debated over before set into stone. Stop whinning and roll the dice. If you can't keep up then don't step to the table.

 

im not angry, i just love to debate . everyone will have their own view on stuff like that due to each game being unique and forming their own opinion on the issue. if you had great success against some uber-bunker list im sure you wouldn't mind playing it on a regular bases. but we can always agree to disagree . on a more positive note, tomb kings are coming out in may, so yay for that. not a tk player myself (i only play lizards) but its good to see GW updating some neglected codexs (keep your fingers crossed for necrons this fall). and id always step up to the table, i LOVE rolling those buckets of dice. i wonder how that scar vet build would fair against the teclis bunker? thatd be one for the ages

 

I wasn't speaking to you Coatl, I was refering to KroxigorsFTW. I agree that you should have debates about things, it's a major part of this message board. But telling someone off and being rube about it isn't the way to debate.