So I figured we could try this out... And yes, I create a lot of topics, but I suppose I just have so many ideas lol. So this is pretty much an open thread in the sense that other people can ask similiar questions about something they want the rest of the forum to comment on or work together about. The idea? That the theme of an army is suggested - in this instance the theme is "fast", I'll elaborate in a sec - and that we, in union, try and give our perspective, knowledge and experience to make that theme as optimal as possible. IT IS NOT A "SUB-FORUM" OF THE ARMY LIST FORUM, but a way to help generate a bunch of "themes" made good enough so that people can use them as a sort of template/inspiration. I was inspired to do this because I personally want to make a fast list, but I'm not entirely sure what would make the list truly good. Some people might've even tried something similar. Also Mr. Phat has recently declared that our army is limited and was backed by GCPD. So, I'm not trying to say that we should make lists that could reliabely win tournaments, but at the very least be considered useable for what they try to accomplish. The fast army (vs dwarfs) I played the new dwarfs today and just as when I played against 7th edition dwarfs I just want to get across the board as fast as possible. Our M4 models takes what feels like an eternity when the enemy got all kinds of crazy shooting. - So excluding the M4 models is, I suppose, the first step. - The next goal would be to have anvils and hammeres. I specify this because when I've already excluded the saurus on foot I've said goodbye to T4/AS4/3+ and it would be really easy to forget any proper anvils and just include a lot of heavy hitting stuff. - Tetto'Eko is cheap, mobile, is loremaster and most importantely he can give us vanguards. - Against this particular enemy monsters are a risk. Alrighty so this is what I've currently come up with the following @2500pts: Heroes 647pts: Tetto'eko 3 x scar vets fully greared Core 625pts: 2 x skrox darts w/ musician (12 skinks/1 krox) 1 x large skrox unit w/musician/banner (33 skinks/4 krox) (anvil I suppose?) So that leaves us with roughly half the points for special/rare: Specia 890ptsl: 8 kroxigors (semi-anvil) 8 CORs w/ musician 6 ripperdactyls Rare 336pts: 2 x 2 salamanders + snacks. Total = 2498pts. The 6 ripperdactyls could alternatively also be made into 1 units of 3 rippers and 2 x 5 cameleons. Anyway so here's the deal: Tetto'Eko grants at least 1 vanguards, so the first one should be used on the salamanders. If 2 vanguards then both units of salamanders move up. These will burn dwarfs first turn if possible. If 3 vanguards then either the kroxigors OR the CORs. Probably the CORs I haven't actually dedicated any warmachine hunters because I find it hard to actually hunt the dwarfen warmachines. They can blast our cameleons with their gyrocopters, shoot our birds with the organ gun and generally place their artillery in a place that is hard to reach for us. The only real option the way I see it is to use terradons, but we can't charge first turn anyway. The current list also doesn't feature big vulnerable monsters although loosing a couple of kroxigors could be bad. The Rippers will vanguard up on a flank they're the most safe. The general will try and march up so that he's near the rippers (frenzy). The skrox/krox units move up first turn as well. So this army is pretty much up in the face of the opponent in turn 2, but will be burning him at turn 1. Tetto'Eko will try and place a comet in a way so that it messes with the opponent, but not with the targets of the salamanders. Rippers and CORs will be first and probably work in tandem (CORs in front, rippers on flank if possible), the skrox + krox will try and work in tandem as well. Again if possible due to terrain. I'm not sure if this works out, but when I look at the list it tells me that it's something that will mess with the opponent both psychologically and hopefully thus make him do something he would not. If he can be forced to move up the board it'll mean that we can much more reliabely get a charge on him at turn two. So the deal is now that you can either comment on what I've posted or come up with an entirely different list that serves the same purpose. It's also fair to just make some general notes on what should and should not be included in a such army. I hope this makes sense and that you can see the point in this. It is also fair to suggest a completely different theme and ask the forum about what they think about it. Let's try and make some creative "army templates" both the veterans and newcomes can benefit from.
That's not that far off my fast list. Except I went with: Tehenhuin Tetto Eko Skink Chief, BSB, light armor, shield, banner of discipline Skink Chief, light armor, shield, cloak of feathers Skink Chief, light armor, shield, spear, Ripperdactyle Skink Chief, light armor, shield, spear, Ripperdactyle 24 skinks + 3 krox each, Standard and Musician 20 skinks, full command 3x10 skirmishers, javelins 2x3 Ripperdactyles 4 Kroxigor 2x5 Chameleons 2x1 Salamander 6 Razordons That's 3 flying heroes, 2 flying units, and 2 units of scouts. Enough warmachine hunters to overwhelm defenses. Salamanders, Razordons do tons of damage, and skinks can jav the gyros pretty effectively. 10" move and template (8" range) is less range than the 12" march and 12" shoot. Generally, Lizards win the chaff battle and hit the warmachines, unless the opponent is stupidly bunched up; and then it's just a matter of chain lightning and comet doing it's thing. A side note on Razordons. They really tear up the dwarves. Dwarves don't like getting into a shoot out with the skirmishing razors, even less so if cover is anywhere around. Basically, lizards pick the fights, and usually come out ahead. -Matt
what's your priority on vanguards? Sounds interesting to be honest. It's a completely different army than what I'm used to. **EDIT** I just painted 24 skinks, but I can see that I need a lot more. Oh well I should probably finish up the rest I have ..
Vanguarding is enemy dependent. Sometimes you'll want to move up salamanders, sometimes you'll want another support unit to pressure war machines; and sometimes you actually want to push forward a block of infantry. Too many variable to say, always vanguard X, then Y, then Z.
At the OP. Aren't 647 just a bit too much for 2.5K? Isn't 625 the magic number here?. Sorry for ruining your party :s Otherwise i like the idea! and it would probably be correctable by adding an OB instead
Well looking at a fast list, my standard list is almost my fast list, sometimes (depending on if it is a tournament or a army specific list) i make some changes.. The major list looks like: Slann w/ BSB - Harmonic Convergence, Becalming Cogitation, Focus of Mystery - Channeling Staff Chief on Terradon w/ Egg of Quango 30 Saurus Warriors w/ Banner and Musician at least 2x10 skirmishers w/ Jav and Shield 26 Templeguard w/ Full Command 2x3 Ripperdactyl Riders at least one ancient stegadon w/ Sharpened Horns This basic built gives me the opportunity to build a quick list an still having some options left... For example ogre specific i will use 2 stegadons w/ sharpened horns and 4x10 skirmishers, against orcs n gobs i often use only one stegadon but something like a bastiladon
Oldblood flying carpet. Talisman of salvation Enchanted shield. Light armour 1+ / 4++ flyer. 1" base footprint. He can hunt all the warmachines on his own.
Saurus Oldblood: Armour of Destiny; Dawnstone; The Other Trickster's Shard; Cold One; great weapon; light armour. 275 Tetto'eko 185 Saurus Scar-Veteran: Armour of Fortune; Cold One; great weapon; Battle Standard. 164 Saurus Scar-Veteran: Gambler's Armour; Dragonbane Gem; Cold One; great weapon. 129 Saurus Scar-Veteran: Dragonhelm; Cold One; great weapon; light armour. 120 10 Skink Skirmishers 70 10 Skink Skirmishers 70 10 Skink Skirmishers 70 10 Skink Skirmishers 70 10 Skink Skirmishers 70 10 Skink Skirmishers 70 10 Skink Skirmishers 70 20 Skink Cohort: Musician. 110 8 Cold One Riders: Musician. 250 3 Ripperdactyl Riders 120 3 Ripperdactyl Riders 120 3 Ripperdactyl Riders 120 3 Terradon Riders 105 3 Terradon Riders 105 3 Terradon Riders 105 2,398 points
We all have our own definition of what a fast army is, but the list you listed reminds me of what I'd usually take when not making a fast list I find our M4 models to be slow, the same with the slann.
MSU list is not equal to a fast list. The thread is about closing the gap between the enemy and whreck faces in the same way as Chaos Warriors do. MSU is more like redirecting and picking your fights with your only hammer. Also in that list I miss the Slann with Death Magic in order to snipe characters. Which is what does this kind of list good. Once you kill a Character you earn all his VP. But damaging units and not wiping them out don't give full VP. The play is all about winning the chaff war with the massive skink clowd. Redirect their nasties to avoid bad engagements, in magic kill expensive models and in combat breaking or wiping out a unit per round. It was superior in 6th and 7th. In 8th is good strategy against small elite armies (where you choose when to strike and usually you go from the weakest to the strongest) . But it falis against cheap and huge infantry blocks that may die in droves but remain steadfast. On the other hand a fast army can be made of M4 infantry models. Keep in mind boosted Walk Between Worlds its a free movement of 20" (which the gap between armies at the beginning of the battle is 24" or a little more). You are there in turn 2.
Everybody has his own choices! Movement 4 is rather slow, but I don't want to use the templeguard as a combat unit, only as a defence block, which could do damage if necessary.. Flanking rippers, upcoming skinks and the stegadon and saurus in the center and try to surround the enemy with the flyers and the saurus moving slowly forward! With this list i've often combi charges (2-3 units) with at least one unit in flank/rear
I've just played against Dwarves and I find myself playing mostly behind his ranks, with 2 units of 10 chameleons and 2 units of 3 rippers it was not that hard to start blowing his machines since turn 1. Skirmishers kept some wild slayers busy (dying) The interesting thing was the first magic phase. An augmented Walk between the worlds send my saurus block right into his face and, well they did what they do best: grinding. Perhaps it's not the best thing to relay entirely in a spell but I find this really usfull as an alternative If I don't feel like playing with Tetto'eko. Needless to say, it was a really nice victory for Lustrian forces