title pretty self explanitory. how would a lizard army best bring the fight to the new woodelve army? ive seen them in action once, and i must say... wild riders are scary, poison shooting is scary, and those tree things...scary. so whats a good way to counter them? any tips/tricks and strategems would be helpful. thanks.
Skirmishers help, with the -1 to hit, but Saurus, or temple guards even, are pretty effective here. Armour Piercing only reduces armour by 1, and most of their bows are S3, meaning they wound on 5s and still allow a 4+ armour save against them. Lots of monsters are fun as well, though poison can be fatal if you are unlucky. Getting them into CC as fast as possible is important, but once you are there, it's practically game over for them. Even with Armour Piercing as a blanket rule to almost all units, they are still weak against heavy armour. I had a block of archers with HoG hit my Old Blood on a Cold one with 32 attacks, where 6 auto-wounded. The 32 was reduced to just 8 (6s to wound is bad), for a total of 14 wounds. I saved all of it, with my 2+ and 4++ saves. Not even all that lucky. In fact, I would have been unlucky to lose him to such a weak volley of attacks. 8th edition Wood Elves are more dangerous, to be sure, but they aren't THAT bad. I've played them 3 times, and didn't feel pressured even once, getting a clear cut victory every time.
Depends on what you're facing. 10 waywatchers will shred COR, leaving the characters exposed. No armour saved is brutal. Lots of skinks is a risk since they can have arrows that'll hit unmodified so we're talking 3+ after 3+ with AP. Our skirmish units have nothing to say in that regard. Tetto'eko and a bus full of characters with saurus warriors, terradons and a couple of ancient stegadons should, however, be a decent counter. They can't focus fire every thing afterall.
I just finished my second game vs them. +1 to everything Pinktaco said. With what I have faced, here is what to look out for: Trueflight arrows. A couple units with these will deplete your skirmishers fast. Do not rely on skirmishers or Chamos for their normal duty. If you bring them, you want them as backup shooting. Keep them at least 30 or so inches from the glade guard with these arrows. Poison arrows. These will wipe out your monsters, and from a really long range. If you still want to bring stegadons, screen them as they move into position. Waywatchers. if they don't bring two units of these, I will be surprised. These will eat up your COR (though that doesn't mean you should avoid them. They are still really good. Handle these with magic and especially with salamanders. Here is what I've found works pretty well: Life magic. Boost your toughness, and even the no armor shots from the waywatchers are only wounding on 6s. Regen and regrowth help as well. Also, awakening works really well. It's cheap to cast, and they are usually in trees. Salamanders. Most of what they bring is blocks of low toughness, light armor units. AKA - sally bait. They probably won't panic, but you can pretty easily knock down their numbers to manageable levels. Aggression. Wood Elves are anathema to the regular "let them come to me" lizard playstyle. You need to get into combat ASAP. COR, Tetto for vanguards, swiftness banner, skrox units. Whatever it takes, get them into someones face so that you can get a respite from the hail of arrows. Character protection. Skinks are easy fodder. If you are using skinks for a bunker (such as for Tetto), keep them FAR, FAR AWAY from trueflight arrows. There is nothing more disheartening than having Tetto in a bunch of skirmishers, behind 4 blocks of units, taking hits on a 3+. As for units to consider leaving at home: Stegadons: die to poison Rippers: everything hits first with rerolls chamos: 0 protection from trueflight, and waywatchers have their way with them due to multishot. I'll post my latest battle report once I finish it up. A big issue you are going to have is cleanup. Often 1 or 2 sisters of the thorn or something will survive, and since WE can wipe out skirmishers at will, it is going to be nigh impossible to wipe them all out.
Hmm I think camo skins can be used, but only if you can guarantee getting +1 to start. So fewer units. The true strenght of the new Woodie army is that you can't properly counter them unless you tailor your list. Our usual list consists of a lot of skinks, but they due so so fast against wood elfs. I think our regular tournament list will have a very hard time dealing with then. The funny this is how the WE players complained about not having +1S in close combat, but who cares with the trueflight arrow. They can dance around us all day, staying at maximum range and they will. Hitting them fast and hard is needed. Unfortunately they have an arrow for every job ^^
I found lord kroak really effective. static -1 to hit is great, and deliverance can all but table them by itself.
can they take multiple special arrows and switch ammo every shooting phase? or is it pick one, and thats it for the game? im playing a league so lists are locked... my list has a steg, a bastilidon, a 25 man saurus block and a cowboy scarvet with a skink priest. he does have the RRoR tho, so maybe fireball might help me out a bunch here. ive also got a salamander and a razordon (altho next level im dropping the razor for a sally, im not liking how its doing so far) i figure my best option here: smash my cowboy into the wild riders. with d3 str 6 impact hits he should remove a few from that alone, and he has a decent armor save and 4 more str 6 attacks. the saurus block will just rush up flanked by the beasties and the salamander/razor. hopefully that should remove any room to run, and if i charge multiple targets, i can maybe just maybe negate some of that insane shooting. am i on the right path?
Since we have a high number of wood elf players in our meta here I've started using my chameleon skinks as waywatcher hunters/displacers and have moved back to a TG bunker over a skink one. I usually spend my first turn trying to plunk down whatever trueflight unit/s they bring with magic before resorting to the old hit and run tactics later. The TG with flame banner can go toe to toe with treekin while my cowboys try to rush their shooters. It's been mostly effective though they are now my toughest matchup.
They can only take one type per unit and their cost is added to the price so they cannot change what they have. I don't know what exact list you're up against but yeah, you'll probably want to ruby ring the treekin to whittle them down and rush the back line with the rest of what you have. If your vet gets the charge you might be able to do something to the wild riders but otherwise you're more banking on holding them up for a turn or two while you try to crunch his supporting units.
Wood elves are one of the few armies I like magic missiles against more than buffs. Most wood elf players are going to bring 1-2 units of wild riders which you need to get through (with buffed units or magic missiles). After that you're blitzing into the softer back line units. Spells like soul quench, awakening of the woods and the solar don bound spell are great for blowing away the msu wood elf builds that I see in my area. As with all shooting games (40k included) the best defense is a good offense. Whatever you bring, it's going to die if your opponent wants it to. You just need fast enough units (ripper dactyls) and enough magic missiles to kill the wood elves faster than they can kill you. It's that simple. Against dwarves and empire you need to pick off cannons then let the rest come to you. With wood elves and other archer-based armies you just have to kill them faster which means a more focused ranged game.
They pick one and stick with it. The only exception is their waywatchers who can choose between multiple shots (2) or no armour every turn. Also, you impact hits are AFAIK on your base value stats, so it's S5 and not S6.
I have now played my 43rd game with my WE since release of the new book and I can give you some tips. Shooting is not as good as to think. Yes, against everything that is T3 like empire and other elves, the arrows just tear them up. However, anything that is T4 or great is incredibly hard to kill. They can handle T4 but I would have to focus all of my guys on one unit while hopefully avoiding the other ones. The only arrows you have to worry about are Hangbane arrows which give them poison and are AP. But just look at what happens when you shoot infantry of T4 with your skinks? How much do you see them wipe units out thats more than a hand full? Long story short dont worry about Their arrows. Even the waywatchers might ignore armor but it is still a S3 shot and people take 1-2 units of 10. They do not prove serious harm to heros because its is jut not enough shots. Watch out for their warhawk riders. They can vanguard and be behinfd your lines turn 1 and unless handled quickly can do some serious damage because of thier S4 killing blow attacks. A good magic missile will take care of their easily because they just have a 6+ save. Wilder riders are their biggest threat. I have taken out units of skull crushers before taking a single wound with these guys. On the charge a unit of 5 have 15 S5 AP ASF attacks and 5 S4 with their mounts. They dish out damage fast but if you can hold them their even for 1 turn they will die faster than skinks in cc. They have 4+6++ but that is it. Also any good shooting at them before they get into combat will wipe them out no problem. The biggest problem I have playing them is keeping them alive just to get into combat. Other than that the WE cannot deal with T4 or better reliably. Hold your skinks back early game so you can split their archers. Deploy more on 1 side of the board because you will get completely surrounded by turn 3 and it becomes chasy chasy killy killy. Trust me on this because I am still trying to find the best way to deal with hight toughness armies.
43rd?! You must play a lot of warhammer! Or a typo of course Agreed, high T seems a good way to go - they actually seem to struggle against out monsters. Anything T5/6 makes all the arrow wound on 6s. Saturation is probably the best way to go. Maybe even regadons? Agreed wild riders are very potent on the charge. They rear charged my 8 krox in one game. They killed plenty (3 I think?) but I killed them all with my attacks back - just as well! Again, Kroak. Deliverance smashes face.
lol no I really played 43 games. I usually play 2 games a night after work and can get 3-4 a night on the weekend. I get my moneys worth! And Kroak is awesome. Just played him cuz I just got his model. Played tomb kings. I think that is all you need to know lol
well considering my units are a t6 cowboy, a steg, and a bastilidon, then a saurus block and sally/razor i think wyssans wildform is a great option. itll make my saurus t5, wich means the only way the poison arows hurt is if they score that poison hit, and then im still getting my 5+ vrs it.