Here's the list I am going to take to Buckeye Battles in July. Tournament is 2500 points, and it uses the Swedish Comp system for "banding". Armies are divided into 3 groups based on comp scores, and your first 3 games are within your group. On day 2, the last 2 games may or may not be within your group, but you can get advantages for large differences in comp scores (choose table side, redeploy d3+1 units , and choose first turn). Command models are in nearly all my units because they are needed for scenario objectives. I built this list to be in Band 3 (softest). There is no Slann since that pretty much puts you into band 2 automatically. My hope is to do well against soft armies but still have the tools to potentially take on harder lists day 2. Last year, I went 4-0-1 and 6th place overall with a low-magic Band 3 list, and would be happy to duplicate that feat. Here's the list with some comments: LORDS Saurus Oldblood: Armour of Destiny; Dawnstone; The Other Trickster's Shard; great weapon; Cold One 266 I think this is pretty much the best combination of offense and defense we can get in a character. Will go with the Cold Ones if facing cannon, but will go in the Saurus Warriors if not. His combat ability can transform the Saurus Warriors from an anvil/grinders to a true hammer. HEROES Saurus Scar-Veteran: Sacred Stegadon Helm of Itza; Luckstone; Potion of Foolhardiness; great weapon; light armour; Cold One; Battle Standard Bearer 185 I love the Stegadon Helm. The 1+ AS and T6 can often be better than a ward save. Goes with the Cold Ones to mitigate Stupidity. Skink Chief: The Egg of Quango; Dragonhelm; spear; light armour; Terradon 119 Hunter of monsters and war machines. Skink Priest: Cube of Darkness; Lore of Beasts 95 Skink Priest: Dispel Scroll; Lore of Beasts 90 Magic defense and spamming of Wildform. Will normally both hang out in the same skink unit unless it is safe to go it alone. CORE 25 Saurus Warriors: spears; Spawn Leader; musician; standard bearer 305 12 Skinks: Skink Brave; musician; standard bearer 90 • 1 Kroxigor 50 10 Skink Skirmishers: Lustrian javelins and shields; Patrol Leader 80 10 Skink Skirmishers: Patrol Leader 80 10 Skink Skirmishers: Patrol Leader 80 Pretty straightforward here. SPECIAL 8 Cold One Riders: spears; Pack Leader; musician; standard bearer 302 5 Kroxigor: Kroxigor Ancient 260 Bastiladon: Solar Engine 150 3 Terradon Riders 105 6 Chameleon Skinks: Stalker 88 Cold ones hit hard, as do the Krox. Funnel dice through the Bastiladon until its time for Wildform spam. RARE 1 Salamander Hunting Pack: additional Skink Handler 84 1 Razordon Hunting Pack: additional Skink Handler 69 Would love a second Salamander but it would push me down to Band 2. 2,498 points
Given the comp restrictions and desire to remain in the 3rd tier, it is extremely difficult to make any suggestions for "improvement" but here are a few ideas to consider that, if they don't impact the tier, would be helpful IMHO: Option 1: 1) Drop skink chief to free up points. - chameleons can handle war machines and krox any big monster. 2) replace basilly-don with sharpened horn steg (ancient, preferably) - the initiative boost isn't great and it does effectively sacrifice the hail mary magic missile but steggie would be much better for a combat list. 3) rippers in place of terradons - more attacks, S4 AP, KB, better AS, immune to pysch and fantastic for a suicide run on a toad rage unit that has a juicy wizard in the front rank. Option 2: 1) replace saurus with 3 krox skrox unit so all core MV 6". 2) drop skink chief or go with SV as general to free up points for next step. 3) replace krox with 25 x TG - this would replace the saurus block with a far superior unit that would benefit from the solar engine as I3 actually means something. The S5 from halberds can be further augmented by the razor standard or a cheap LD 9 or move 5 banner. I love using TG without a slaan as no one expects to see them. In the lower tiers, I strongly suspect this unit would have a real advantage over most other combat blocks and they would be a nasty anchor to a flanking skrox unit. 4) Rippers for terradons Option 3'ish: Just a mishmash of independent ideas/tweaks 1) charm shield for skink chief - prevent that one cannonball from killing him or he can be parked in front of the basillydon to save it for one round. 2) rippers for terradons 3) drop razordon for any of the following: a) twin pack of jungle swarm - poison could really help in any combat with an infantry block. This would be especially nice with saurus/TG as predatory fighter would be even better; b) razor banner for cavalry - keeps the "razor" part and makes the cav's S4 attacks much more effective; or c) go with 2 x 5 chameleons or boost existing terradons/chameleons. 4) Replace cav spears with AP banner - it might sacrifice a bit on the charge but the extra -1 to all those attacks would be really helpful in any grinding combat against high AS troops (i.e. any elf/human cavalry). 5) saurus spears with hw & shield - 6+ parry is a moral victory when it happens! As I said, I am not sure what impact any of these ideas would have on the band but hopefully at least one of them will prove useful. Good luck!!
Responding to your suggestions: 1) Drop skink chief to free up points. - chameleons can handle war machines and krox any big monster. The Terradon Chief has consistently performed well for me so I am inclined to keep him. I like having redundancy and I don't want to rely on the chameleons too much for hunting war machines since it is an open-list tournament and opponents can box them out fairly easily. I do like one of you later suggestions for him though ... 2) replace basilly-don with sharpened horn steg (ancient, preferably) - the initiative boost isn't great and it does effectively sacrifice the hail mary magic missile but steggie would be much better for a combat list. My previous list that the current one evolved from had an Ancient Steg with Sharpened Horns and I kept losing it to first-turn war machine fire. The final straw was when I lost it to a single Skullcannon shot before I even got to move. Bastiladon also dies easily to war machines but it's a lot fewer lost points when it happens. 3) rippers in place of terradons - more attacks, S4 AP, KB, better AS, immune to pysch and fantastic for a suicide run on a toad rage unit that has a juicy wizard in the front rank. Don't have the models for it ... Option 2: 1) replace saurus with 3 krox skrox unit so all core MV 6". If I went his route I would go with 2 bigger Skrox units instead of 3 mid-size. I have not used big Skrox units in the new book but liked them in the old. Will have to consider this. 2) drop skink chief or go with SV as general to free up points for next step. I did go with SV general last year and it worked fine ... 3) replace krox with 25 x TG - this would replace the saurus block with a far superior unit that would benefit from the solar engine as I3 actually means something. The S5 from halberds can be further augmented by the razor standard or a cheap LD 9 or move 5 banner. I love using TG without a slaan as no one expects to see them. In the lower tiers, I strongly suspect this unit would have a real advantage over most other combat blocks and they would be a nasty anchor to a flanking skrox unit. I have strongly considered using a TG unit with Banner of Discipline. If I try to do this, I think I would stick with an Oldblood as the general--extra points in magic items can make him far more durable. 1) charm shield for skink chief - prevent that one cannonball from killing him or he can be parked in front of the basillydon to save it for one round. Good idea. Have used Dark Pegasus characters to catch cannonballs in my Dark Elf army, and it would be a good use for the chief. Loses a point of armor, but so be it. 3) drop razordon for any of the following: a) twin pack of jungle swarm - poison could really help in any combat with an infantry block. This would be especially nice with saurus/TG as predatory fighter would be even better; I think I will do this. Razordon does suck ... b) razor banner for cavalry - keeps the "razor" part and makes the cav's S4 attacks much more effective; or I wish there was an option for them to take a magic banner ... and don't want to put it on the BSB because then that model becomes squishy. c) go with 2 x 5 chameleons or boost existing terradons/chameleons. I'm ok with these unit sizes. Have worked out well for me in the past. 4) Replace cav spears with AP banner - it might sacrifice a bit on the charge but the extra -1 to all those attacks would be really helpful in any grinding combat against high AS troops (i.e. any elf/human cavalry). Again, if it could be done as a unit standard ... 5) saurus spears with hw & shield - 6+ parry is a moral victory when it happens! Agree. Mine are all modeled with spears unfortunately. As I said, I am not sure what impact any of these ideas would have on the band but hopefully at least one of them will prove useful. Good luck!![/quote] You have given me a lot to think about. Thanks for the feedback. I am going to play around with some TG list ideas.
DT, I completely forgot how nerfed saurus cav became in the most recent book WRT not being able to take a magic banner - definitely stick with the spears. I've had similar issues on the basillydon vs steg debate - since the steg is a threat, it tends to draw a lot of fire. Regarding not having rippers, there is an option depending on how strict the WYSIWYG rules are enforced and the number of spare bits you have kicking around. If you have a few of the old TG helms kicking around, they make a really good lower jaw when converting terradons to rippers. Toss in a bit of green stuff to make a kite tail and presto, instant rippers. Ideally, the lower jaw is designed to be held in place by rare earth magnets but that isn't truly needed. The other option, of course, is to simply buy three rippers and build them. If you do decide to try skrox, they are far different from the old book and have to be used differently as a result. Knowing they are subject to being stomped/thunderstomped and that the krox can be attacked is one thing, experiencing it is much more educational and usually from the burned hand school of life lessons! Essentially, they make very good flankers but cannot really take on anything of note over the front. In addition, they make very good shooters as they can swift reform, shoot, and then do a stand and shoot charge reaction to help bring an opponent down to size. Most folks will let a wildform off when the unit isn't in combat so buffing them makes the shooting S4 poison!!
Can you tell me what comp score you're looking for? i'd like to give criticism, but i have an easier time doing it by writing a list, and then making remarks under my choices. That way you can compare your choices to mine, and to my ideas, and maybe it'll give you some inspiration, i doubt you'll bring my list (since per definition, it'll be my personal preferences that defines "MY" list), but i find it a fun experiment.
Lists were due by June 20 for full bonus points. The list I ended up submitting is nearly identical to the original list, but with 2 main changes both suggested by Stonecutter: 1) Charmed Shield on the Skink Chief. I went back and forth on this one a lot, since he loses a point of armor save. Stonecutter's justification for the idea was that the Skink Chief could be positioned in a way to catch a cannonball directed at the Bastiladon. This didn't seem like a great idea to me since it means the Skink Chief can't take full advantage of Vanguard to get in position to attack a war machine. However, I've found that the Charmed Shield is useful to ensure the Skink Chief stays alive on his approach to the war machine. Without it, the cannon he is approaching can kill him before he gets the chance to charge. 2) Dropped the Razordon (and Potion of Foolhardiness which I always forget to use anyway) for a unit of 2 Jungle Swarms. Razordon has been totally underwhelming in practice games. Swarms are actually better at dealing with chaff units due to their good number of poisoned attacks and they offer the potential to buff friendly units. Final Swedish Comp score was 14.7.
I noticed soon after i wrote Buckeye's is in very soon. But great luck with it anywhoes! Hope you make your target of top 6ish again ^^ and yeah, single razordons are probably a poor choice, i've had luck fielding them in units of 3+ though, but haven't played with it enough to say if it's truly worth it, and my sallies still outperform them by far! your list looks solid, and i understand your charmed shield thoughts! i am blesses with a rather canon free environment, so i'd have gone with and ES instead, even going to a tournament due to doing what i am used to mostly, and the fact that i have seen chiefs dying to arrow swarms because he "only" had a 3+, but it's definitely still a good choice! You have a lot of damage in the army, and a solid strategy, so likely you'll place well ^^ and do finally come and tell us about it!
Just got back. Went 4-1-0 with 2nd best-painted and the award for best Lizardmen player. Beat Wood Elves, Ogres, and 2 Daemon armies. Lost to Tomb Kings. Details to follow.