8th Ed. My first game

[synical]

This is quite a long read.

Hey guys, i posted here not long back saying i was getting back into warhammer fantasy after 10 years or so, so i've been lurking the forums since then.

Anyway, i just wanted to thoughts/discussion on my game if i can be as insightful as possible.

-Please bare in mind i have not played warhammer since 4th edition and the army i had was limited in some degree aswell as using the 7th edition army book for the 8th edition rules(?) -

So here's a short insight to my army, Lizardmen.

20 saurus warriors - FC (fullcommand)
16 saurus warriors - FC
20 Temple Guard - FC
5 Cold One Cavalry
Skink priest - level 2 with Engine of the gods
Skink Priest - level 2
1 salamander
2 scar veterans
16 skinks - blowpipes
16 skinks - javelins.

I played against Tomb Kings, and i got completely destyroyed needless to say. I'm not 100% on the units he had and such but a general run down below.

Tomb Prince
Casket of souls
Bone giant (i think it was, it cast spells)
Scorpion
Catapault
3 ashati
3 carrion
40 (?) Man horde of skeletons
20 Archers
4 light chariots
10 Light cav
1 sphinx
2 lich priests

I got absoloutley destroyed in this game, i wasn't 100% sure on the rules so my stegadon went to waste and needless to say a poor set up phase by myself. But i don't see how i could beat his army, i forgot about magic and all the jazz in terms of items but don't feel that would have helped stop him.

I got decimated in turn two as soon as his horde got the charge on my temple guard with 3 units - 2 champions in the one unit, a scorpion and a sphinx on my flank. by this point my men were running for the hills.

I know i'm new and this isn't explained very well, but any advice on how to beat this army? I'm set to playagain soon, but facing his dark elves this time.

Regards

//syn

 

[Arli]

Ok. With the information that you have given. I would offer this advice:

First, get a slann as soon as you can. That way, you can use his leadership 10 rerollable against the Casket of souls. It efectively makes the attack against lizardmen leadership useless. You should be rolling 4d6 discarding the highest when you do that test anyway.

Second, get some chameleons and Terradons. These can be used to take out the giant (probably a Hierotitan that gives d3 dice to each casting by casters within 12 inches-Becalming cogitation will take care of that too), the casket (can add d3 to power pool), and the catapult. For choosing the targets, I would probably take out the casket first (if possible), then the giant, then the catapult.

Another good target for the skinks (chameleons too) would be the sphinx. If it is a flying sphinx, be aware that he can charge you almost from the bottom of the first turn. Be prepared for that. If it does not fly, you have a little time. Bog it down with disposable skinks.

If he has any horde units, salamander will take care of this. Even though you cannot cause a panic check, his troops will disolve under that fire. Also, the EOTG will take care of almost all of his troops. Against Undead, the str of the attack is bumped up to str5 (if I recall correctly). This attack cannot be saved in any way shape or form.

To stop the catapult for a turn, you could use the EOTG ability to grant a 5+ ward vs shooting or you could cast iceshard blizzard on it.

Hope this helps.

 

[Qupakoco]

Please bare in mind i have not played warhammer since 4th edition and the army i had was limited in some degree aswell as using the 7th edition army book for the 8th edition rules(?)

Yah, we don't have an 8th ed book yet. Make sure you get all caught up on the LM FAQ that brings our army into the 8th ed rules.

http://www.lustria-online.com/threads/

As for getting chameleons, I'd recommend using your blowpipe skinks as two units of 8 chamo's. If you don't mind modding your models, you can cut off their crests to make them look the part.

Your army looks ok though. I'd combine the saurus into one unit. Try to keep the TG on the flank. They aren't too great without Slann support.

 

[synical]

Thanks for the replies so far guys, will help next time i face off against them. As for purchasing slann and other models, funding is very tight atm so i wont be able to add to my army for a while so have to make do with what i have already - but yeah i could use modded skinks for chamo.


Yeah he had a Hierotitan which was becoming a pain in the rear, as i wasn't sure how all the magic and such worked and had to rush reading through the lizard book i missed important things that would have swayed the game - such as the engine being wasted by not moving my stegadon for fear of the skink priest dying and such.

Wsan't so sure how good the salamanders would faire aswell so they went to waste - i feel for a first game it went every possible variation of bad lol.

Anyone hvae any tips on a similiar force to fight a dark elf army? Tips and tactics welcome.

I recall he has 2 bolt throwers, a hydra and a pegasus amongst standard unit variations of crossbow,spear,shades and the witches.

Thanks

//syn

 

[Arli]

I have only faced Dark Elves a few times. Here is what I remember:

They have strong magic. It would be worth taking both the cube of darkness and a dispell scroll (for two priests). Also, they have fairly good shooting (crossbows). The EOTG will help with that some. You may benefit from a regular stegadon/ancient stegadon or a Skink Chief with warspear on a stegadon more against them though. The charges with stegadons will decimate the DE ranks (Impact hits happen before their initiative).

Salamanders here are good as well. You should target any hydra with skink poison shots.

 

[liath]

I would echo most of what's been said above.

A Slann will seriously be able to shut down his liche priests, they're not the same league of wizard. Skink skirmishers and chameleon skinks will help take out a lot of his larger models.

Your saurus should be able to handle his infantry without issues (I believe they have to outnumber you about two to one to in a fair fight - which you won't give him if you've got your slann).

Salamanders would work well, most of their characters are flammable, take a few sallys and torch his hierophant, that'll slow those skeletons down!

Try jungle swarms or small units of skinks to speedbump his hordes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-HGOtPP5tY is a great video!

 

[BEEGfrog]

What everyone else has said...

Also because of the step forward rule it is less important to have saurus unit champions than in previous editions unless you have a character in a unit that you want to protect against challenges. It is often better to use the points for more rank and file because 8th edition is all about big infantry units.

Having said that it is often best to maximise the number of skink units you have, if you don't convert any to chams then consider running them as 3 units instead of two units (you can use the rule that units can mix and match weapons for visual impact but count as majority weapon type for game purposes if you don't have enough spare WYSIWYG skinks).

5 Saurus cavalry are going to be shot down by DE before they can do anything worthwhile so consider using them as mounted scarvets/old ones instead.

How tolerant is your opponent/venue for proxying and/or scratchbuilding? There are a number of cheap plastic dino models that can be used for salamanders, cold ones, carnosaurs or steggies (most of my steggie models have scratch built howdahs on plastic dino bodies, including both my EotGs).

Against any kind of elf you generally want more and more sallies, elves are just perfect for cooking!

 

[synical]

Forgot to post back as i've been moving back to uni - Safe to say the responses helped drastically and made me think more before making my turns in my second game.

The game was a smaller battle of 1500 points against the dark elves. Needless to say, i won the game My first win in i don't know how many years, best i';ve managed to scrape is a draw (lol)

My unit of saurus cavalry were pitted against his cold one knights - whom he failed the charge with which gave me the edge. His second turn would me the game, 4 failed charges from coldone knights, spearmen regiment, chariot and his executioners i think they were - this gave me time to counter charge with saurus cav - 2 x saurus warriors, my ancient stegadon and my kroxigor mixed unit.

The stigma i had about being reserved with my ancient stegadon was brushed aside when i charged his spearmen and caused devistating results - the magic phase allowed me to use the powerhouse of the engine and destory his chariot,half his spearmen unit and desimate his harpy squad.

The rest of the game was cleanup.

I've recently purchased a slann and some terradons but not sure on the best ways to outfit the slann in terms of magic items, same goes for my saurus scar veteran and skink priest if i choose to tank another, any more thoughts?

Thanks for all the advice,

//syn

 

[Rhodium]

I've recently purchased a slann and some terradons but not sure on the best ways to outfit the slann in terms of magic items, same goes for my saurus scar veteran and skink priest if i choose to tank another, any more thoughts?

Thanks for all the advice,

//syn

How you kit out your slann depends on what you what him to do and how you army lists look.

The two main ways I run are:

For fun, lore of beasts, fencers blades cupped hands ethereal BSB war banner

Get a fighty slann, lone charge people, they hopefully can't harm you or only a champ with a magic weapon then you have as many 5 ws10 strength 7 attacks (depending on your buffs) then on top of that +3 CR with charge bsb and war banner. I have run down many a big unit using this set

My more competitive slann is lore of light, cupped hands, divine plaque, ethereal and skrox/saurus blocks

So run around solo behind the line with a 2+ ward against attack that can harm you (magical ones) buffing my combat units and allowing them to do the work


How ever there are other popular slanns too:

Ethereal + BSB + crown of command + standard of discipline, just tarpit his best non magical unit with a stubborn re rollable Ld10 slann!!!

Lore of life and temple guard bunker, smash this massive units into things, slann is safe in second rank, and resurrect any fallen soldiers (not many when they can be toughness 8 with 4+ AS and 4+ regen!) again with the standard of discipline that is a ld10 stubborn rerollable unit, and this time it can fight hard!

Shadow/death slann and salamander, so ethereal and maybe cupped hands and divine plaque,
Screw with units leadership and toughness then flame the hell out of them with salamander,

So basically few items are an auto include, it completely depends on what kind of strategy you plan to use

 

[synical]

Good read there, sounds pretty awesome - been reading through some of the magic items to gear my slann with really. My next game is against TK - so not sure what is a good item build to get aswell as what lore to take?

General consesus is that he hides his mage in a unit of archers and his 2 melee heroes in a big horde of skeletons flanked by some scorpion and a chariot squad.

Is there any specific item choices and lore spells that work best against these types of armies? As my main oponents will be Vampire counts/Tomb Kings and Dark elves/Chaos warriors - As i'm still pretty new to the 8th edition - having not played since 4th edition - i'm still reading through the rules and looking at what magic lore would be best suited for my army.
//syn

 

[Moniker]

Light would be the more obvious choice against Tomb Kings and Vampires, but I've always had more luck with Life. I also like Throne of Vines, and that fact that we can have loremaster guarantees it. I usually don't take Cupped Hands when I have Life.

The Discipline that grants you a free D6 when you cast spells is essential, I think, as it can give you a chance on a bum Winds of Magic role to still do something.

I love the Engine of the Gods. I tend to be a little cautious with it as well, until the main battle lines clash then I throw it in. So it usually sees combat one turn after my other stegadons, if things go my way. Charge in and Burninate things.

If you're taking temple guard, then a Slann is essential. I don't think the Banner of Discipline is necessary - mine run away so rarely. It's more likely they'll need to be killed to a man, and at that point it means things are all ready going rather badly...

Saurus I won't take in units less then 25 in a 5X5 as I like needing to take 6 casualties before my Rank Bonus is effected. In a 6x4 unit, you only need to take 2 casualties. The extra 11 points is definitely worth it.

With the undead opponents (I face VC and TK very regularly as well) the way to kill their characters - especially the Lord level Vampires - is not with anti-hero heros, but with combat res. When his unit crumbles, eventually the wounds will go on the characters. It's a big meaty horde of skeletons so not very maneuverable. Get stuck in with your temple guard, then slam a stegadon and whatever else you can into it. Even better if you can negate his rank bonus. That'll get theme very time.

 

[Scalenex]

I've recently purchased a slann and some terradons but not sure on the best ways to outfit the slann in terms of magic items, same goes for my saurus scar veteran and skink priest if i choose to tank another, any more thoughts?


//syn

There are lots of good ways to outfit a Slann. The Tactica index has 12 articles on Slann alone (and it still doesn't cover EVERYTHING you can do) so it's worth checking out.

http://www.lustria-online.com/threads/8th-edition-lm-tactica-index-newest-link-march-2nd-2015.8681/