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AoS Need some help with lists, 560pts

Axquirix
Cold One

Axquirix

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Playing fairly regularly at my local GW, most people there have settled into some fast-play 560pts lists. It tends to work great for them, but I'm losing every game. And not just luck-of-the-dice losing, I mean dying to the last man while failing to take more than a handful of enemies with me.

The setup I used twice today;
  • Skink Starpriest, General with Celestial Rites ability (due to him not having a unique command ability).
  • Stegadon, with Skink Alpha and changing primary ranged weapon depending on what enemy is being fought.
  • 40 Skinks, with Boltspitters and Shields.
  • 1 Salamander to take up that last 40 points.
And they got thrashed.
  • First time up against a Tzeentch mob who half never got into melee, the whole of my force effectively being wiped by a chaos spawn and three flamer daemons. True, the big turn of 40 Skinks shooting was to take down a Verminlord that was giving my ally trouble, and did drop it to 1 wound left. A graceful enough defeat, as said Kharadron ally managed to give the 10 Chaos Warriors and two heroes that survived my guys a bit of a runaround before losing.
  • Second time up against a mob of 40 ghouls supported by a king and one of their other heroes. Skink mincemeat. None of the ghouls died (for good anyway).
Other than swapping the Steg (who's good with the skinks and good on it's own merit, except my luck with the skystreak bow is horrible) and the Salamander (who isn't contributing much without handlers) for a Bastiladon with Solar Engine (because 2d6 attacks is nearly always better than 3), nothing obvious jumps out at me for how to improve this list.

20 saurus would not last much longer than 40 skinks, and from what I can tell guard suck if they don't have their battalion and Warden alongside them, which just isn't viable in a low-points game.

I've pretty much got at least one of everything now, and a good idea of what I'll be fighting. Assuming 560 points, what could I use against;
  • Big ghoul hordes
  • Wood Elves that all shoot people
  • Tzeentchians, mostly mortals with a couple of daemons
  • Nighthaunt (that right now get passed up for the ghouls because their banshee doesn't do much to seraphon, but I'm expecting them to come in after the new models hit)
  • Khadarons, also shooting heavy and with one gunboat.
  • I aslo face Clan Pestilens sometimes but am pretty sure I know what I'm doing against them. Chama skinks would be good against them, along with any other small units that punish poor saves.
 
560 points?
Wow. That's really low. We are a synergy army so that's not very good for us.
I have to think about it...
 
Seraphon don't really have a lot to work with at that point level I'm afraid, far too reliant on buffs from other units and relatively expensive bits to get you over the finish line.
 
Maybe something like this?

Allegiance: Seraphon

Leaders
Skink Starpriest (80)

Battleline
40 x Skinks (200)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
40 x Skinks (200)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers

Units
1 x Razordons (40)
1 x Razordons (40)

Total: 560 / 750
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 90
 
Crowsfoot said:
Maybe something like this?

Allegiance: Seraphon

Leaders
Skink Starpriest (80)

Battleline
40 x Skinks (200)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
40 x Skinks (200)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers

Units
1 x Razordons (40)
1 x Razordons (40)

Total: 560 / 750
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 90
Click to expand...

Against what other factions can field at 560 that won't get you too far. Skinks aren't going to kill anything and will get torn up by anything that can hit them.

I can field this for 560 points in Nighthaunt:

Leaders
Knight of Shrouds (120)
Tomb Banshee (80)

Battleline
6 x Spirit Hosts (240)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)

NINE Spirit Hosts! Mortal wounding on a 5!

You can field with this with Nurgles of Daemon, and this is basically just a Start collecting box:

Leaders
Poxbringer Herald of Nurgle (120)

Battleline
10 x Plaguebearers (120)
10 x Plaguebearers (120)

Units
3 x Plague Drones (200)

Those plague drones will destroy the skinks by themselves.

Something more shooty?

Leaders
Herald Of Tzeentch On Disc (120)
- Staff of Change

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120)

Units
3 x Flamers Of Tzeentch (180)

Evaporated.
 
Last edited:
Ritual said:
Against what other factions can field at 560 that won't get you too far. Skinks are going to kill anything and will get torn up by anything that can hit them.

I can field this for 560 points in Nighthaunt:

Leaders
Knight of Shrouds (120)
Tomb Banshee (80)

Battleline
6 x Spirit Hosts (240)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)

NINE Spirit Hosts! Mortal wounding on a 5!

You can field with this with Nurgles of Daemon, and this is basically just a Start collecting box:

Leaders
Poxbringer Herald of Nurgle (120)

Battleline
10 x Plaguebearers (120)
10 x Plaguebearers (120)

Units
3 x Plague Drones (200)

Those plague drones will destroy the skinks by themselves.

Something more shooty?

Leaders
Herald Of Tzeentch On Disc (120)
- Staff of Change

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120)
10 x Pink Horrors Of Tzeentch (120)

Units
3 x Flamers Of Tzeentch (180)

Evaporated.
Click to expand...

Yeah I know we seriously need updating but at such low points only thing we can do is get wounds on the table.
 
Crowsfoot said:
Yeah I know we seriously need updating but at such low points only thing we can do is get wounds on the table.
Click to expand...
Feels like delaying the inevitable rather than actually having a chance though... May as well be realistic. It's just such an odd point amount to be playing at, even just going to 750 you could get a slann, 40 warriors and a skink priest and have a chance against anything by teleport shenanigans.
 
Ritual said:
Feels like delaying the inevitable rather than actually having a chance though... May as well be realistic. It's just such an odd point amount to be playing at, even just going to 750 you could get a slann, 40 warriors and a skink priest and have a chance against anything by teleport shenanigans.
Click to expand...

Very true and at such low points it should as an introduction to the game a 1000 pt game does not take that long to play
 
Aginor said:
560 points?
Wow. That's really low. We are a synergy army so that's not very good for us.
I have to think about it...
Click to expand...
Ritual said:
Seraphon don't really have a lot to work with at that point level I'm afraid, far too reliant on buffs from other units and relatively expensive bits to get you over the finish line.
Click to expand...
That's what I was afraid of, especially since the general theme for us seems to be "Field a battalion and then add supporting units" and none of those can be done for less than about 750... I think my best bet might be to try and get Ripperdactyls onto the board, even if I can't field a full Shadowstrike starhost they can do some impressive damage.
 
You can get the Shadowstrike in at 570 but low on wounds and units

Allegiance: Seraphon

Leaders
Skink Priest (80)
- Priestly Trappings

Battleline
20 x Skinks (120)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
10 x Skinks (60)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers

Units
3 x Terradon Riders (120)
- Starstrike Javelins

Battalions
Shadowstrike Starhost (170)

Total: 550 / 750
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 43
 
That's also 30% of your points on a Batallion....
 
Probably the best thing we can do at really low points values is play a ton of Skinks so we can maybe outlast the enemy.

Like this:

Allegiance: Seraphon

Leaders
Skink Starpriest (80)
- General
- Trait: Master of Star Rituals
- Artefact: Incandescent Rectrices
Skink Priest (80)
- Priestly Trappings

Battleline
40 x Skinks (200)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
40 x Skinks (200)
- Boltspitters & Star Bucklers

Total: 560 / 1000
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 88
 
80 skinks, a starpriest, and 2 razordons is probably the best we can get at 560 points. It should have a reasonable shot vs any of the other lists mentioned, and should kill that Tzeentch army in ~3 turns, seeing as the tzeentch army is 31 wounds with 5+ saves. As decent as a Stegadon CAN be, most monsters aren't going to be great in such a low points game.

You probably don't want both a priest and a starpriest at such a low points level with everything having a 6+ save anyway.

You could run 40 saurus warriors with an oldblood and a starpriest or 10 skinks (if you need a second battleline, get some teleporting alpha strikes in with the command ability from the oldblood to put you 6" away instead of 9". Some ~72% of the time, you'll just win outright by wrapping their army in ~30 saurus and killing a huge chunk of it in one turn.

Or you could run a carnosaur or cold one scar vet with some Knights, which are probably our best saurus unit without battalions in low model/unit counts.
Allegiance: Seraphon
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Carnosaur (240)
- General - Trait: Disciplined Fury/Thickly Scaled Hide - Artefact: Coronal Shield
40 x Skinks (200) - or replace these with 10 more knights.
5 x Saurus Knights (100)

Total: 540 / 750
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 62

You could run a cold one scar vet w/ coronoal shield/blade of realities/incandescent rectrices, 10-20 knights, and 10-50 skinks. 57+ wounds with reasonable combat. It would likely be the best option for a heavily combat oriented list.

Allegiance: Seraphon
Saurus Scar-Veteran on Cold One (100)
- General - Trait: Thickly Scaled Hide - Artefact: Coronal Shield
10 x Saurus Knights (200)
10 x Saurus Knights (200) - or 2 units of 5, or 40 skinks
10 x Skinks (60)

Total: 560 / 750
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 57

Screen the knights with the small unit of skinks so they're more difficult to get to and you can be more likely to get the charge or attack with them before they get hit in combat.

Allegiance: Seraphon
Skink Starpriest (80)
- General
- Trait: Master of Star Rituals
- Artefact: Incandescent Rectrices
40 x Skinks (200)
10 x Skinks (60)
10 x Skinks (60) - or 1 unit of 20 or 3 razordons - 2 small units is nice for screening though; you can block 2 charges that would normally hit your big unit of skinks.
3 x Kroxigor (160) - 1x Moonhammer

Total: 560 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 76

Something like this might also do well. The Kroxigor will chew up infantry like ghouls pretty quickly with the Moonhammer, and the other two average about 4 damage apiece in each round of combat, so even 2 of them will have similar output to a monster. They also have a 2" reach, so they can swing over the moonhammer in the front or 2 ranks of skinks to minimize return strikes.
 
Those are some solid lists, thanks! I've been looking at Knights more as well, just as essentially mounted infantry. It's a pity we don't have any ways to buff Salamander's hit rolls given the kind of damage they can do.
 
Axquirix said:
It's a pity we don't have any ways to buff Salamander's
Click to expand...
Ally in a loremaster? Reroll hits and wounds for a model within 18”, and he can do spells. Is that allowed on your 560 list? He’s 100 points though...
 
Lezlor said:
Ally in a loremaster? Reroll hits and wounds for a model within 18”, and he can do spells. Is that allowed on your 560 list? He’s 100 points though...
Click to expand...
That's still cheaper than an Astrolith, which would be the only in-army means to buff a Salamander and would only be reroll hits. Most of these small games ignore alleigance abilities and go Warscroll only, so going Grand Order over Seraphon isn't a huge issue... Might have to pick up the model, but I might have something I can proxy already.
 
Funnily enough I used an astrolith bearer ( kitbash)last night for first time in a game.
 
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