8th Ed. New Lizardmen Player, Slann Help

Hey! I'm new to Warhammer and I've put together a decently sized 2k army to play with my friends. So far in the two games I've played I used the Lore of High Magic, but I have been looking at the Lore of Life for throne of vines as I've had extremely terrible luck with miscasts. I was wondering if there was any rules or perhaps magic items I have been overlooking to try and counter the effect of miscasts to an extent, I do have the +1/-1 Discipline, which saved my slann from being cast into another dimension last game, but it doesn't seem to be enough for me to feel confident in the amount of points I'm dropping on the toad if I ever want to cast any spells with a larger number of dice. Just looking for some advice to see what you more experienced players do with our magic phase.

 

Thrones is probably the most reliable way of avoiding a miscast. I used to use this with my life archmage and the book of hoeth to great effect. those were the days of getting off thrones and stone skin on my swordmasters as they ate through a deathstar of ironguts. good times.

 

The best way to avoid miscasts is to use less power dice :-/

Don't get me wrong, I've cascaded down a hole on turn 1 from a 2-dice spell (twice! and once it was from casting Throne and I failed the 2+ save!!!) just like the next Slann. But if you're throwing fewer dice at Spells you shouldn't miscast too often (http://home.znet.com/ksterns2/MagicOdds/MagicOdds.html)

With 3 dice, you should be able to cast everything in high magic (except boosted Walk between Worlds) over 60% of the time, and you'll only miscast 7% of the time (once every 13ish spells).

You won't cast every spell you attempt, and your opponent will have a better chance at dispelling them. But you should be able to make 2 - 4 attempts each magic phase. Occasionally, you'll fail to cast a spell and end your magic phase, but that is far less violent than miscasting and blowing up all your Temple Guard (or falling down a hole).

And if you really need a spell to go off, go ahead and roll the dice. But be aware that you are (literally AND figuratively) rolling the dice, and there are miscasts-a-plenty in the world of 6-dice spells.

Another "use less power dice" tactic is to use Wandering Deliberations to get a lot of cheap-to-cast spells and combine that with the book of Ashur to make most of them castable with 2 dice (although, 3 dice is the safer route to take to avoid snake eyes)

Anecdote time!

When I was a math teacher, the students that were stuggling often wanted to lean "all the shortcuts" because they knew the smarter kids were all using shortcuts and that is how they were able to do all their homework so quickly. But it turns out that the smart kids were just doing the work, rather than trying to figure out the shortcuts, and that is how they became "the smart kids".

I may be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure the better players aren't throwing large numbers of dice at spells. Instead they throw small numbers of dice at lots of spells. When you start playing that way, the magic phase becomes more like a game of poker. Which spells do you need to cast, and which spells does your opponent *think* you need to cast? Which spells will he try to dispel and which spells will he let go through?

Instead of hoping for Irresistible Force (and a not-game-ending miscast) or hoping that your opponent doesn't roll high enough to dispel, you should be trying to fool your opponent into dispelling spells you don't care about, and letting the spell you actually want to cast go though. The magic phase is a time for mind games and long cons!

 

For sure, that makes a lot of sense. I'll check out the lore of life sometime in play but in retrospect I was probably just too afraid to lose my magic phase on a failed cast but your right saying that the miscast "probably" isn't worth it in the grand scheme. Thanks for the advice!

 

Wandering deliberations is the greatest 30 pts you can spend. All low casting spells, a hero killer (with discipline banner), 2 fireballs, 1 great buff (wyssans), 1 heal/buff spell, 1 hex that synergises great with spirit leech, 1 armor killer and another hex that I don't think I've ever used...

With channeling staff and +2 channel dice your magic phase becomes long and irritating to the opponent. Take a lvl 2 skink for when you roll snake eyes and lose spells or your slann drops to lvl 1 (happened to me in the last 2 games I played)

Miscasts will happen, but crank out enough spells while dispelling the enemy spells and it is worth it

 

That definitely makes sense, I wasn't sure what to make of Wandering Deliberations, but I suppose, if they are easy enough to cast on 1 to 2 dice it would be a lot for an opponent to deal with, and possibly difficult for them to assess an appropriate time to burn their dispel scroll.

 

Yeah but they still get to use inspiring presence!

 

Popping Tetto Eko in the list really helps make your magic more reliable.

If you are looking for the most powerful magical phase that Lizards can offer then a Slann on Death with Tetto is the way to go. The synergies between those two mean that you get a very reliable magic phase that has the potential to go really, stupidly well for you.

 

As a new player you need games under your belt to get a true feel of how often miscasts happen, and why they do.
You will learn to adjust how many dice you use, and as time goes you will have a better sense of balance, and miscasts will happen less.

Please do mind that "against all odds" miscasts happen.
While Throne of vines is the most reliable miscast counter, it isnt bulletproof.

First turn
I roll 3 dice for winds of magic

First spell - Throne of vines
I throw the 3 Dice on it
Six, Six, four.
I roll a 1 on the miscast protection
I roll dimensional cascade
My 24 strong TempleGuard bunker gets blown to 4-6 guys.
I roll below 4.
My fully kited, dispel scroll carrying General Frog Caster BSB.... gone.

.....oh and I was playing against a lvl 4 Death mage in a high elf army. He had purple sun.

some things just cant be avoided.

 

There was a FAQ that basically said unmodified leadership meant your modified leadership. I know it sounds weird, but if you do a search for spirit leech and blizzard you will find discussions about how strange the ruling was.

Bonuses and penalties apply to spirit leech. I don't understand the ruling, but I certainly will abide by it (someone had to explain it at the game store and then I had to do a search because I didn't believe them)

 

I dont see anything of the sort in the current faq. Is it still there?

 

Q: Do units benefit from their General’s Inspiring Presence for the
purposes of spells that use Leadership, such as Spirit Leech or
Okkam’s Mindrazor? (p107)
A: Yes.


Has this part been removed again? It was in the April 2013 FAQ/Errata.

 

Toast. Gone. Retconned.

The FAQ currently on the Black Library defines unmodified leadership as the highest Ld in the unit, and specifically calls out inspiring presence as not working. No idea about iceshard / D&D as I didn't look that closely.

 

It is still there I am afraid. Page 10 in pink writing.

 

http://www.blacklibrary.com/faqs-and-errata.html


Only goes 7 pages... You have an old version. They either retconned it or put an old one up.