-_- One of my two friends who play, plays Warriors of Chaos. He just got his new book and he usually stomps me with the old edition unless I really plan it out well. Does anyone have any input on the new Warriors Book? We haven't played yet since he got it.
me too my chaos friend says that the new book nerfed the army. I don't know if it's true, because i have never played against old warriors, but i give you an advice: have an anti-daemon prince plan
The deamon prince does not really worry me to much to be honest. I love using lore of light, and since the deamon prince cannot join units, empowered Shem's and Banishment should utterly destroy him quite easily.
If he brings a Warshrine, don't bother trying to dispel its buffs - its practically a power dice drain and a few extra attacks here and there at slightly better strength or slightly better weapon skill or a slightly better armour save on one character isn't going to be game changing. Kill Hellstriders at first opportunity. Those things are mean against our chaff. Nurgle is the best mark in the book, granting -1 to hit. Congrats, our Saurus hit them on 5s. Therefore make sure you bring something that is going to improve your own to-hit chances, like Speed of Light, Enchanted Blades or Miasma.
I'll have the new book myself soon. My understanding is that the old power combos became slightly more expensive. Marks costs are by model not by unit and Marauders are a little more expensive. A couple of the super combos were removed but they got powerful new units too. I think they are going to remain a tough opponent to beat, but the net result of the change will be more variety in their lists, especially in Core.
As an army, they didnt get nerfed, a couple units were brought more in line with how they should be. For example, Marauders had a 2/3s increase in points, and this brings them almost exactly in line with the empire troops price and stats. So if your friend played a marauder heavy list, he would feel that way. To make up for it, a different set of units are now under pointed. The only things thats really scary about their new list is their ability to take an all monster and chariot list.
I've played against the new WoC four times now over the past two weeks and the army got a very nice update that made some things better and some things worse. Surprisingly, the better things are also the new models that cost a lot of $$$ I have yet to have a chance to read through the codex but here are my observations IIRC: The Better: 1) Warriors - they are slightly cheaper when unmarked but the new marks are now paid for on a per model basis which equates to about a wash in most instances although it will shave a few models off a horde. The big difference is the mark. Nurgle is now a straight -1 to hit and definitely one of the best marks to take in the army so I would expect to see more of them. 2) Hellcannon - it now has an official ward save which, when coupled with the monster and handler ward save, makes it pretty tough to take out. It also has magical attacks. 3) Skullcrushers - more expensive, T4 rather than T5 and need to buy the no-brainer cheap upgrade for +1S and magical attacks but gained an extra wound to make up for it. The juggers are also +1 S on the charge so these are very nasty monstrous cav. 4) Demon Prince - went from absolute garbage to pretty amazing when marked with Nurgle as the extremely high WS and nurgle will mean anything but elite troops are hitting on 6s. Most importantly, the DP is unbreakable so no breaking it in combat or grinding it down through static combat res like other daemons. Furthermore, it can take a mix of magic items and gifts of chaos that can make it much better both in the offence and defence. 5) Big Monsters - a couple of new monsters along the lines of a terrorgheist in terms of danger but vulnerable due to low LD and ability to panic them. If they are fielded, you can expect to see doubles or a mix of 2+ so that at least one makes it across the boards to wreck the enemy. 6) Dragon Ogres & Ogres - DO's got cheaper and better weapon options such as halberds. Given the other army choices, they are still a sub-optimal choice. Chaos ogres are much cheaper (in line with current OK units), get impact hits and can be marked so I would expect to see them fielded, especially if the WoC player also owns an ogre army!! 7) Daemonic gifts - are in addition to magic item allotment and there are a lot of really good ones for very few points. 8) Chariots - now a core choice but expect to see the upgraded gorebeast version instead. For just a few more points than the old chariot, it has an extra wound, more S5 attacks, T6 and KB on the impact hits. Toss in a mark of nurgle and it will be quite a tough nut to crack. 9) Daemonic attacks - not only are these now magical but they also apply to all of the models attacks including stomps & thunderstomps, etc. Ironically, this is in direct contravention of the general FAQ on the same issue which stated that such special rules did NOT apply to stomps and thunderstomps. While it would only affect an ethereal slaan for lizzies, it will be a big plus when WoC are going against vamps or wood elves (not that they needed any help with the latter!!). 10) Character mounts - all the daemonic mounts now grant magical attacks and they are inexpensive for what they are doing. Again, nurgle appears to be a great choice for a hero level character since it will grant two extra wounds but the flying Tzeentch disc and jugger are also solid choices. Worse: 1) Marauders - way more expensive and seriously so when a mark is added. WoC players will likely still field them because they own the models but they will have to chop the horde in half to do so! 2) Chaos Knights - even more overpriced and an insane choice when the skullcrushers are available. 3) Eye of Gods/Warshrine - IIRC, the gifts now only apply to characters and champions, not units. Also, with favour of the gods gone, the roll cannot be modified as before. However, there are options that allow rolling three dice and picking the best two. While it may be better for characters, at least the chosen star is no longer impossible to grind down. 4) Magic items - puppet, favour of gods, banner of rage, etc. are gone. However, a chaos gift allow re-rolls of ward saves of 1 so a new version of the dark elf Chuck Norris is available (i.e. 1+ AS followed by 3+WS that re-rolls any 1s) with plenty of points left over to take the crown of command and a magic weapon. Good news again is that this is unlikely to be anyone other than a wizard using the combo. 5) Magic lores - very much in keeping with current books that are less powerful than the big 8 IMHO but a few pretty neat spells. To make up for it, marked casters now still have access to other lores. With Gateway, treason and several other killer spells nerfed, the overall impact is a less threatening magic phase. That about sums up what I can recall at the moment. I'll be playing against them again tonight so I will try to update afterwards.
Hah, my friend was upset- he played all of one game with his Chaos army and it's elite 40-man Horde of Marauders with the Mark of Nurgle & Flails... and then watched the unit DOUBLE in price between editions! At least he expected it (I think he realized that his Horde was over-the-top for it's price). He's happy he doesn't have to buy those 10,000 year old Dragon Ogre minis and gets nice new ones, though.
i faced them aswell daemon prince bsb on disc 3 chimeras 6 units of marauder horsemen 2x4 skull crushers he was fast, he was strong! it ended up in a draw, caus i know how to dodge units with my skirmish skink army, it will be a tough nutt to crack!
Well, another game involving WoC last night but we had an odd number so it was 2:1 with WoC on both sides! I have amended my earlier post to add chariots to the list as WoC have core chariots and a new one called the gorebeast chariot that is quite good (T6, 5 wounds and KB impact hits for just a few points more than the old chariot). The daemon princes were amazing on both sides and I think Festus is going to be a very popular SC in WoC lists. He not only retains all his current abilities but can now either heal a wound every CC phase or attempt to poison a model in contact by doing an opposed strength (d6+S) check and causing multiple wounds with no AS unless the defending check is higher!
we dont need a new book, it is just because woc are new, and nobody has figured out how to handle them easily, we still are one op the top armies, with an older book, they are doable, it s just a matter of how and what match ups
I've played WoC a couple times since the new book came out and here's what I've found: Pros: Dragon ogres are 60 pts a model! (while Krox are 55 pts! compare the stat lines!) Even though gateway cannot destroy units the magic lores are still powerful, especially the lore attribute! (a daemon prince with lore of slaanesh has a chance of increasing his stats every time he casts a spell) Gorebeast chariots are brutal and can destroy units if used correctly, making a go cart list viable. They can now make ridiculously powerful characters with their new magic items. Warriors themselves have become cheaper, but some options such as additional hand weapon are more expensive. Cons: Warshrines are hardly ever taken now due to the nerfed EotG table (no more stupid 3+ ward chosen units!) Marauders are much more expensive, so less huge units will be taken. There is probably a lot more to add to this but that's what I've found so far.
I also play wood elves and let me tell you that I would kill to have Tzeentch as an option rather than the lore of Athel Loren!!
athel loren has the only spell in the warhammer magie to get a charge of in the magic phase, besides anvil of doom tzeentch warpfire attribute sux =)
Treason of Tzeentch is my favorite spell in the new book. An anti-deathstar spell if ever there was one. Assuming you combine the spell with a hellcannon or two.