8th Ed. PF and Automatic hits

[SilverFaith]

So, we hit an odd spot yesterday during a game. The basics of what happened is:

Oldblood with a Helm of Discord is fighting in a challenge with an Elf Noble.

Noble fails his leadership test, covers, and is automatically hit.

What happens to my predatory fighter? Do I still roll the dice, "hitting on +1", but gaining additional attacks on a 6? My opponent said no, but that seems pretty odd to me. I regularly manage to get 6 or more hits on my oldblood with 5 attacks, so it seems pretty weird that I would lose benefits from something like this.

And here I was giving an underused item a chance to shine...

 

[Ondjage]

I'd say that its pretty obvious that you don't benefit from PF with automatic hits, just like an automatic wound from a poisoned attack doesn't benefit from Killing blow.

PF requires you to roll a 6 to hit to trigger, so when you don't roll, it doesn't trigger. Would you also argue that you should benefit from PF when getting impact hits (automatic hits) with the stegadon helm?

Expecting 6 hits with an old blood versus an elf character is pretty optimistic imo

 

[SilverFaith]

Would you also argue that you should benefit from PF when getting impact hits (automatic hits) with the stegadon helm?

No I wouldn't. That's a pretty fair point. Though Impact Hits sounds more like "slamming your body into the enemy with the force from the charge", rather than actual "attacks".

Still, I see where you are coming from, though it does seem odd that "automatic hits/wounds" CAN have a negative effect on your performance. Not that they necesarily HAVE, but the fact that you lose the benefits of good rules is pretty odd design, in my opinion.

 

[Ondjage]

I do not disagree with your viewpoint, but the rules are pretty clear

 

[hardyworld]

I'd say that its pretty obvious that you don't benefit from PF with automatic hits, just like an automatic wound from a poisoned attack doesn't benefit from Killing blow.

I concur. Though I do not believe this interpretation of the rules' interaction is 'obvious', it certainly appears to be how the rules interact with each other.

 

[DanBot]

Would you also argue that you should benefit from PF when getting impact hits (automatic hits) with the stegadon helm?

No I wouldn't. That's a pretty fair point. Though Impact Hits sounds more like "slamming your body into the enemy with the force from the charge", rather than actual "attacks".

Still, I see where you are coming from, though it does seem odd that "automatic hits/wounds" CAN have a negative effect on your performance. Not that they necesarily HAVE, but the fact that you lose the benefits of good rules is pretty odd design, in my opinion.

I always though that PF attacks were bites, hits from the tail, or other hits from the body. To me it almost feels more likely to come from impact hits than automatic combat attacks. More to the point, first thought was also "no". That is how I have always played automatic hits don't get rolls for poison. And I am pretty sure there is a rule printed somewhere that states no poison on automatic hits.