8th Ed. Playing against bretonnia.

Hey, I have a 1750 point game Coming up against a friends bretonnia army, we are both relatively new to fantasy, despite playing 40k and lotr for the last 10 years or so. Therfore we are still getting used to the rules, and spend a while checking through rulebooks etc.

I am just looking for advice for a friendly game, I know roughly what his list will be based on models, but in general he won't have pegasus knights or trebuchet.

Models wise I have a slan a plastic old blood, scar vet on cold one, 2 skink priests, 20 temple guard, 30 of each sarus (30 with spear, 30 with sheild) 20 skinks with javelin, 10 cold one knights, 4 swarm bases, a stegadon (can be any type) and 2 salamanders.

My next purchase will be 2 boxes of terradons, as I really like the new models, and il build them as a unit of 5 and a skink chief on terradon (we will probably play allowing the chief to join the unit) but I won't have these avaliable for a while.

At the moment I'm tempted to take the slan with the lore of metal, but past that I'm pretty short for tactics. I'm worried that his knights will be able to ride down my sarus on the charge, especially if he double charges.

Any words of wisdom will be greatly received! Thank you in advance!

Besty

 

I urge you not to take Lore of Metal. It only has a couple of spells that are specifically good against armor, one of which is the signature spell. You will be left with a lore that has some good and some OK spells, but it's likely not a lore you'll take frequently. You'd be better off taking High Magic and the Discipline which allows you to trade spells out and then just take the signature spell when you need it. This will not only make you seem more friendly, but it also helps you get better with the lore which you will be more likely to take in an all-comers list anyway. I think that's your best bet: build a list that should be able to handle any army, and try it out versus Bretonnians, who in general are one of the easier armies to win against.

As for Knights, the core Knights of the Realm and Errant Knights are S3 and T3 by default so that only makes them S5 on the charge. Bretonnian players often complain of 'rubber lance syndrome', where they charge in and then bounce off. The most common formation for knights is a 9-knight lance, of which they get seven attacking models. For Knights of the Realm, this costs 240pts. Assuming no characters vs Saurus, that's 8 attacks hitting on 4s and wounding on 3s. You'll be taking two wounds, of which you might save 1 with AS 6 and parry save. Assuming 5 wide Saurus with at least two ranks, that's 15 (+say 2 for PF) attacks back, also hitting on 4s and wounding on 3s. Even with a 3+ save he's likely taking 4 wounds back. In this scenario he has the charge and an extra rank so the combat is a tie (assuming you both have full command). You'll win if you have more than 2 ranks. After that first charge, he has to reform if he wants to get more than 6 models attacking (on Ld7 or 8).

I know that's a lot of mathhammer, but what I'm trying to say is - don't fear the knights. He can make a big bus that can be tooled up with characters and will absolutely rip through units if you let it charge your flank. Don't! Use Skirmishers to redirect big knight units and then flank charge them yourself. One of his characters will likely have the vow which gives Heroic Killing Blow. On no account should you let that guy get near your Stegadon I know it's stating the obvious, but it's worth stating!

Good luck in the game.
~gwh

 

The easiest way to beat brets is to disrupt his charges. Redirects and flees using skinks is the easiest way to prevent him from landing a double charge which is a necessity against almost every infantry block unless it's a character lance. Be mindful of questing knights for their great weapons and grail knights because every model can issue and accept challenges; definitely tarpit and limit damage by a bad ass solo cowboy. Also be prepared if he may charge extremely tough characters with 1+ and wards to tarpit whole infantry blocks. Chaff is important because it limits his movement and breaks up his charges. The fact that he has no trebs really helps you out a lot.

 

Also if u need a bit of buffeting for your saurus you can take wyssans wildform (beast signature spell)on your 2 priest and take the wandering deliberations disciplin for your slann ( all sigs) that means u have 3 wyssans wildforms to use and the metal signature if you need it good luck against brettonia

 

Thanks for the help.

Would you suggest that light is the best lore to go for for a slan? I'm thinking slan, with all the signature spells and the book of ashum (the +1 to cast and dispell) after reading the thread about it here. Just wondering if that might be overkill at 1750.

Also how would you equip a solo cowboy scarvet?

The one thing I forgot to mention was I have 6 kroxigor, and I'm tempted to squeeze in 3 to the list for flanking with their movement, but I haven't tried adding up a list yet, so might be ambitious.

Again thanks for all the advice so far!

Besty

 

Well a cowboy scar vet... Hmmm i dont know i usually have him as a bsb are you going to be issueing challenges sa lot? Because ive had some success with equiping him with a great weapon and then giving him the dawnstone (reroll as) and then boosting his as much as posdible eg. Light armour shield or ench shield and any thing else that will give him high as

 

Considering the bretonnia hero's can't refuse a challenge with out losing their blessing, I'll probably go all out trying to kill his general and bsb early on, I need to have a look through the signature spells to really cement them in my mind but I like the idea of the signature beast spell cast on either temple guard or solo scar vet.

I'm also tempted by a level 1 skink priest with wings for casting magic missiles through, especially as I imagine his calvery blocks will have larger flanks so should be easier to stay out of his charge arc with a solo priest. Just have to hope he has limited magic missiles and archers.

Again thank you for all the help. I'll be sure to let you know how the game goes!

Besty

 

Right! Game over and a few things learnt!

It was touch and go for a while but eventually I pulled off the win, an when we added up points it was by quite a margin.

I went with,

Slan, +1 to cast and dispel, and all sig spells.
Scar vet on cold one with Gw, and impact hits with +1 t
Level 1 skink priest with fly

30 sarus with sheild and full command
2 units of 10 skink skirmishers

20 temple guard
9 cold ones

He took,

A lord with virtue which meant I didn't get cr for outnumbering an mr(3)
Bsb with no rank bonus an +1 combat res

Level 2 damsel with beasts

12 knights of errant with banner for +1 s (damsel went here)
12 knights of the realm (lord and bsb here)
25 men at arms
35 men at arms
10 skirmishing archers

5 yeoman

5 grail knigts

I deployed for a fast left flank, while my temple guard and sarus went in the centre with a building to protect flank.

My cold ones got wiped out by a long charge from the errant which then got behind my line after I'd tried to slow them down with a rear charge with my scar vet who got unlucky an was killed by two knights.

I then had to take a charge from the knights of the realm and peasants on my unit of 30 sarus, but had buffed them with +1 s an t, whilst -1 to hit on his realm unit.

Managed to use the sig spell from metal to wipe out all 5 of his grail knights and following turn bumped it to 2d6 an removed the threat from the errant knights which had got behind my line.

Overall I grinded down him units with my block of 30 who refused to budge, and my temple guard didn't even get into a combat! But the slan with the flying around priest really saved the day.

Overall I think for our next game moving up to 2400 he will be getting some questing knights, moving his damsel up to level 4 and including a trebuchet.

For my part I'm undecided. Very much going to stick with all the sig spells, loved the flexibility, but I'm tempted by a Bastildon to follow my cold one can and allow them to fight simultaneously with the knights. But bit worried about its speed.
Can't decide on my next purchase at the moment though. Either a Bastildon, or 2 boxes of terradons or a cranasour for my scar vet.

Just a quick rules question which we probably should have looked up, but we played that magic resistance stacked with ward save from the blessing just because my magic was so dominant it seemed fair.

Again thank you for all the help.

Besty

 

I'm not familiar with the blessing, but MR(x) stacks with ward saves, but not regen. You probably played it correctly.

Looks like a fun list! 20 TG and a no-frills Ashur Slann is a nice combo at this point level. That's a lot of power and tools for an affordable price.

 

Yes, MR will stack with the ward save from the Blessing of the Lady.

 

Thanks guys. I think we were just being lazy by not checking during the game, but glad to see we played it right. The next game will be at 2400 points against the same opponent, and I'm sure he will include a level 4 in his large unit of knights of the realm with a lord and his bsb in, so it's going to be difficult to do much damage to them with magic, but I might focus on taking them out in combat.
I've picked up a Bastildon as I love the model, but I'm a bit worried about lack of power dice, as the wondering delebration slan sucks up so many dice. I was wondering if it was taking the ability to keep one of ur dispel dice and on a 2+ in ur turn turning it into a power dice. It's not to expensive but could help with the casting of the bound spell.
Then again if my opponent brings a level 4 and a level 2 damsel then il probably end up using my dispel dice anyway.

I must say there is a lot more to list building in fantasy than in 40k.

Besty

 

Most brett armies at 2400 have a damsel with MR1 and a prophetess with MR2, The ability to hide them in the middle of the second rank of a lance unit is huge with the MR stacking with the base blessing ward save in those two units. Note however that while the MR stacks with the ward save, it does not stack with another MR. Most common magic set up is life and life or life on lvl 4 and beasts on lvl 2. Wyssans is huge for bretts, as is lore of life giving them flesh to stone and restoring wounds on characters with the lore attributte. Even with MR2, a unit will only get a 4+ ward save to spells with S4 or less or with no strength value, like dwellers, certain death spells, and certain lore of metal spells.

Banner of Defense is common on an all-ciomers army on a command bus lance unit because of the vulnerability to bolts and cannons. It gives a 4+ ward save but it explicitly only to ap;plies to S5 or greater S magic missiles and regular missiles (shooting attacks). [One time I played a guy that said it applied to all shooting attacks and all magic missiles and direct damage and then stacked it with the MR2 of the prohpetess to claim a 2+ ward save. Huge issue after the tournament ended over that and other things ha did.]


Silver Mirror is a dispel scorll that does a S6 hit to the casting model as well. Very useful for putting a wound on a skink priest.

At 2400, you might run the slann with the extra channeling attempts and channeling staff for more power dice and just save one for the basti to throw at the end of the turn.

His army, BTW, was quite non-optimal. Bretts, even with an old book, are suprisingly competitive with the standard magic set up discussed above. Men at arms are really not commonly taken over smaller units of peasants with longbows behind stakes protecting the standard two trebuchets. Trebs are really effective against the saurus and TG blocks with S5 and can deal with the big monsters if they get direct hits and the "hole" is rolled on the beast not the skinks on top in the case of stegs. BTW, I just run my son's old Gonder Ttrebs from when we played Lord of the Rings and some of those can be had cheap if he is patient on ebay and elsewhere.

If he has trebs, you really want to run chameleon skinks to scout and march and shoot those trebs as soon as possible and to force him to counter that threat.

The key to dealing with bretts is to use those skink skirmishers as chaff units to take charges far enough in fromt of the temple guard and saurus units to allow the saurus, cold ones, characters on cold ones, and TG to counter charge in your turn. If the skinks flee, he is likely to redirect into the saurus and TG units if within range to charge them and his movement is a lot better than yours, so you will likely have to take the charge. Unless he has men at arms that get into combat range, you gain nothing by being wider than five models in each unit.

Salamanders with their breath weapons are also effective in that he gets only a 3+ AS and 6+ ward to those wounds and the fire template can run down the side of the unit. The sallies also double as effective chaff and redirectors and flanking models to pin units in place. Krox (play ogres with great weapons if you want) cut through their units pretty effectively as well.

At 2400, a skink priest is a nice addition to give you more S to punch through armour and threaten his army. I feel that lore of metal is too unfair for bretts to fight, so taking the loremaster with all the signature spellls or life or high magic loremaster on the slann is a standard choice in an "all-comers" list he should expect tot face. High Magic will give you the chance to swap into a lore of metal spell or a lore of death spell during the game and wandering deliberations will give you the lore of metal and lore of death signature spells, which will both be issues for his army until his knights get in combat. Frankly, even using the lore of meteal spell that permanently reduces his armour save is an issue for bretts given their reliance on the armour save and blessing to survive combat. Once in combat his S3 units will have a lot of trouble wounding your T4 and 4+ AS saurus and TG and 2+ AS cold one blocks unless he ungrades a unit to questing knights or grail knights or boosts S (the reason for a damesl with beasts in his army) Bretts players usually feel LM armies are a bad matchup for them because they have the magic to counter them, the fast skirmishers with poison shooting to threaten the brebs in a few turns, the S to cut down their AS, and the larger units with T$ and greater AS to hold up once in combat with the knights and you have the chaff and redirectors to hold up his knights and countercharge them.


BTW, glad to see you play fantasy. It has a much larger unit structure and has unique complexities over 40K.