8th Ed. Predatory Fighter and Last Stand

[GCPD]

So, this came up in a recent game that I've posted in my battle reports thread. In fact, it came up twice.

When a Standard Bearer is the last model in a unit which breaks from combat, he is automatically destroyed as per the Last Stand Special Rule. But does that still count as an actual Flee for rules purposes?

For instance, would a Saurus unit which is not within 6" forced to make a Pursuit roll, as per Predatory Fighter, even though there is nothing to pursue?

Does the death of the Standard Bearer count as being killed in combat, and no Pursuit roll is needed? Or is it a special exception because the Standard Bearer dies before the Flight roll, and therefore the Pursuit roll, is made?

 

[Stonecutter]

The BRB indicates that the standard bearer is slain "immediately" after the unit breaks. If the standard is the last model in the unit, then there is nothing left to pursue as the unit has been wiped out and hence no pursuit is possible.

 

[GCPD]

But for him to be slain, the unit must already have 'broken' from combat. There's nothing to pursue, but technically the unit has still fled. :/

 

[LawGnome]

I believe the rules say that if you catch the fleeing unit, you get a free reform after you kill them all.

In this case, if just the standard bearer is left, I think you would count it as the standard bearer fleeing 0 inches, so you pursue 0 inches, catch him, kill him, and then reform.

Just my interpretation. Not that it will ever get clarified, of course.

 

[Dyvim Tvar]

I believe the rules say that if you catch the fleeing unit, you get a free reform after you kill them all.

In this case, if just the standard bearer is left, I think you would count it as the standard bearer fleeing 0 inches, so you pursue 0 inches, catch him, kill him, and then reform.

Just my interpretation. Not that it will ever get clarified, of course.

You only get to reform if you catch a unit that fled as a charge reaction.

There is no reform when pursuing a unit that broke from combat.

 

[teufelhund]

This came up in a game I had about a month ago; the moderator ruled that they would not pursue. Something to the effect of the standard holds his ground and is killed immediately. The unit would flee, but since there are no remaining models there is no pursuit.

 

[LawGnome]

I believe the rules say that if you catch the fleeing unit, you get a free reform after you kill them all.

In this case, if just the standard bearer is left, I think you would count it as the standard bearer fleeing 0 inches, so you pursue 0 inches, catch him, kill him, and then reform.

Just my interpretation. Not that it will ever get clarified, of course.

You only get to reform if you catch a unit that fled as a charge reaction.

There is no reform when pursuing a unit that broke from combat.

Oh, really? That is good to hear. I had 2 games against WoC where skullcrushers hit a fleeing unit and it was determined that running unto it counted as winning combat, allowing a reform. Made redirecting a pain. Glad to hear that it was misplayed. That will help a lot in the future.

 

[Dyvim Tvar]

Oh, really? That is good to hear. I had 2 games against WoC where skullcrushers hit a fleeing unit and it was determined that running unto it counted as winning combat, allowing a reform. Made redirecting a pain. Glad to hear that it was misplayed. That will help a lot in the future.

Whether or not it was misplayed depending on the exact circumstances, which aren't exactly clear from your post. In what phase of the game did this happen?

1) If a unit charges and contacts a fleeing enemy, the fleeing enemy is destroyed. The charging unit can then reform if it passes a Leadership test.

2) If a unit breaks from combat, the unit it is fighting can pursue or it can take Leadership test to restrain pursuit (putting aside rules such as Frenzy and Predatory Fighter). If the winning unit restrains pursuit, it can reform. If the winning unit elects to pursue, the two players roll off. If the pursuing unit wins the roll off, the fleeing unit is simply taken off the table (not moved first) and the pursuing unit moves straight ahead. If the fleeing unit wins the roll off, then it moves away and the pursuing unit is placed the appropriate distance behind it. In either case, the pursuing unit is generally not allowed to reform.

but ...

3) If the pursuit move (or an overrun) takes the pursuing unit into a new enemy unit different from the one it was fighting, and that new enemy unit is already fleeing, the unit making the pursuit move stops when it hits the fleeing enemy unit, the fleeing enemy unit is removed from the table, and the pursuing unit is allowed to reform.

Doesn't make a lot of sense that a reform is allowed in the 3rd case (or the 1st case for that matter) but that's the way it works under the rules.

 

[LawGnome]

It was the third case. Bummer, that means that was played correctly. Bummer for me, I mean. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[SilverFaith]

One would assume it works the same way that crumbling works. the unit doesn't flee, but is (techicially) destroyed as a result of combat resolution. So it would basically have been a situation identical to wiping out an unstable (for whatever reason) unit due to combat res.