7th Ed. Quadruple wounds?

[Revien]

If someone is carrying the Piranha blade, and the bane head, does he cause four wounds to the target?

 

[Dalkarius]

I believe this has already been covered in another thread, but it would only do 3 wounds, the double wounds do not stack.

 

[Revien]

But doesn't the double wound double twice? How do you get three out of this?

 

[didleoman]

they both activate when that first unsaved wound occurs... so they both would double that 1 wound

1 unsaved
1 bane head
1 blade

3 total wounds

you are thinking 4 because if you double the wounds from each you would have 4 but you have to think that they are sharing that first unsaved wound.

 

[Revien]

If you double the first wound twice you get 4

1x2=2 + 1x2=2
=4

If you end up with three aren't you just adding one wound for each effect?

 

[kroxigor01]

I thought it was 1x2x2=4 as well.

 

[fer]

1 unsaved

doubled gives you another 1 wound

other double gives you another 1 wound

_so_

the 1 unsaved is _shared_ between them so you can't count it twice

1(original) + 1(1st effect) + 1(2nd effect) = 3

 

[didleoman]

If you double the first wound twice you get 4

1x2=2 + 1x2=2
=4

If you end up with three aren't you just adding one wound for each effect?

that equation is basically adding a magical extra wound...

fer is saying what i said but in a much more clear form

they are both doubling the same single first unsaved wound which is shared.

but yes you are adding one wound for each effect since 1 x 2 = 2 or 1 original wound + 1 bonus wound = 2

since you don't have 2 original wounds you take the single one and share it for the other bonus effect

I thought it was 1x2x2=4 as well.

the effects happen simultaneously so for that to happen one effect would have to follow the other effect

 

[strewart]

If you double the first wound twice you get 4

1x2=2 + 1x2=2
=4

If you end up with three aren't you just adding one wound for each effect?

I don't know the actual answer, and probably is another thing that needs to be FAQed, but I do get the maths and logic behind 3 wounds total.

Yes 1x2x2 is 4, but then you are counting the (single) original wound twice, when you should only be counting it once. 1 wound caused, doubled to two by one of the weapons, doubled to two by the ability. You now have two lots of (original woundx2) or (original wound + extra wound), so it looks like:
(original wound + extra) + (original wound + extra)

You can't count the original wound twice, since it only happened once, so you get original wound + extra + extra = 3.

Kinda confusing.. But thats how you get 3. I think there is an equal arguement for quadruple though. Each item doubles the wounds, and happen at the same time, so you get (original woundx2x2)

Though I don't really think this is the first time the situation has arisen, so I did a bit of a google search, and on direwolf FAQ they said this:

Q: Can I combine two effects that double attacks to get quadruple attacks?

A: No. The best you can do is double the base number of attacks. Anything on top of that has no effect. [WD222]

Anyone have WD 222 to confirm? Which would mean taking both would just be a waste of points..

 

[Scarloc]

It really depends on if both items go off at the same time or not. If they do you get 1 base + 2 extra wounds. If they go off in a chain you get 1 wound caused doubled so 2 then doubled again so 4.

I personally think it would be 3 as both items go off an unsaved wound.

 

[To-neh of LaTigra]

The wording of the Piranha Blade counts each unsaved wound as 2 and Bane Head doubles all unsaved wounds.

You can't get 3 wounds from an effect that doubles. You can never count just the first wound for Bane Head as the Piranha blade always makes the original wound =2 wounds, and since wounds caused are doubled by Bane Head, you get 4 total wounds.

"Counts as" and "Doubles" are 2 different effects

 

[didleoman]

like scarloc said.. it all depends if you interpret them to happen at the same time or one after the other

if you can convince your opponent that its 4 all the power to you...

but in my mind... it's 3

 

[jay.sar87]

1 unsaved

doubled gives you another 1 wound

other double gives you another 1 wound

_so_

the 1 unsaved is _shared_ between them so you can't count it twice

1(original) + 1(1st effect) + 1(2nd effect) = 3

I agree with this. The book says "each unsaved wound". Technically only one of the wounds are unsaved therefore you double this one (making two) then you double the ORIGINAL wound again (adding another one wound). You can't count the original wound twice.

Here's how I see the combo:

 

[Scarloc]

If they both say each unsaved wound causes 2 then you would only get 3 overall. One unsaved wound and both items work off that causing another 2.

 

[asrodrig]

I agree with this. The book says "each unsaved wound". Technically only one of the wounds are unsaved therefore you double this one (making two) then you double the ORIGINAL wound again (adding another one wound). You can't count the original wound twice.

Here's how I see the combo:

This, in my opinion, is right on the money, and should hopefully put an end to this silly argument.

 

[msinosic]

I agree with this. The book says "each unsaved wound". Technically only one of the wounds are unsaved therefore you double this one (making two) then you double the ORIGINAL wound again (adding another one wound). You can't count the original wound twice.

Here's how I see the combo:

This, in my opinion, is right on the money, and should hopefully put an end to this silly argument.

How does the Bane Head activate before an unsaved wound? You select (or curse if you will) a single enemy character at the start of the game. Only when that model suffers an unsaved wound, thats right, after suffering a wound and failing to save it, does it "double".

Where is the difference between;

"double" of "any unsaved wound"
"multiplied into two" of "all unsaved wounds"

They both double (or multiply 1 into 2) any (or all) unsaved wounds! They are the same effect going off at the same time and as already pointed out a few posts ago referencing an old White Dwarf, you can not have two items doubling the same effect.

A Character with the Piranha Blade hitting an enemy character which has been Bane Headed will only double (or multiple 1 in to 2) any (or each) unsaved wound once only. 1 becomes 2, not 3, not 4.

 

[strewart]

You may have misinterpreted the diagram, msinosic. It goes from left to right, not up to down. If there were arrows, they would both go out from the unsaved wound, not bane head -> unsaved wound -> blade.

I still don't thinkyou can combine both anyway, but oh well. I am sure it will be in the FAQ when that ever shows up.

 

[msinosic]

You are right! I was reading it top to bottom. Sorry about that guys.

I still believe its 2 wounds max due to no combining.