8th Ed. Questions regarding my most recent battle

Discussion in 'Lizardmen Tactics' started by Skubzilla, Apr 23, 2012.

  1. Skubzilla
    Skink

    Skubzilla New Member

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    Today I fought 2 battles verses my buddies TombKings. I lost the first battle and won the second. Throughout the battles a couple of questions arose in which neither, my buddy, nor myself had an answer to, and in each situation we generally disagreed. So I'd really appreciate some help in answering my questions from some folks who know the rules better than us noobs.

    Also if you don't want to read it all, the questions are in italics, however the paragraphs following are my write up to better explain my questions and how they applied to my battle I had today.



    My first question involves around magical attacks, and it's sort of two questions relating to the same thing. This relates to my etheral Slann, and my questions are as follows.

    Does killing blow count as a magical attack?

    -in the situation today one of his characters had killing blow on a non-magical weapon, (or perhaps a war shinx), and my buddy seemed to think killing blow was a magical attack, thus able to kill my slann on a to wound of 6. He never got the unit/sphinx into close combat, so it didn't matter, but he seemed dead certain killing blow is a magical attack, and I do not see how this is so, but I could, very easily, be mistaken.


    Do flaming attacks count as magical attacks?

    -today he had a banner which gave his unit of chariots flaming attacks. We decided to roll on it, and I won the roll off. So, for today's game the flaming attacks were not magical, which left him only one of his characters with a magical weapon that could hurt my Slann. He vied to find out the real answer, as do I, so I'll know for the future.


    Now I have a few questions left, but those are the more important of the questions as they involve my Slann.



    When is the best time to use Birona's timewarp when running the lore of light?

    -today I ruined my most important close combat by buffing my unit too early and wasting all of my power dice by doing so. I charged my saurus into combat with bironas timewarp, had pha's protection, and speed of light on my unit of temple guard. I charged into combat and all of the spells wore off as soon as the magic phase began. For whatever reason, I was thinking because I charged in I got those buffs for the combat, quickly found out I don't. I then rolled a beatiful snake eyes on the winds of magic and my enemy got three dice on channeling. I did not cast them again, as speed of light, and pha's were dispelled. Next turn his horde of 60 skeletons and 4 characters (necrotect, tomb king, tomb herald, and liche priest) decimated ALL of my 20 temple guard, with terrible rolling on my behalf. My Slann was then in close combat and got slain next turn as he wasn't etheral first game. Not to mention I could not use him the next magic phase due to being in close combat.


    When using flaming attacks against flamable units, how do the doubled wounds work?

    -I didn't argue this one, because I'm pretty sure my friend is right. But for exmaple; I would land a template with a salamander perfectly over his block and be hitting 20+ models. They are all flammable. With toughness 3, I'd be wounding on 4's. I'd get around 10 wounds but it's a flaming attack, and they are flammable thus the wounds would be doubled, so I was thinking nice, I'm dishing 20 wounds to his entire unit. He then said that due to those models only having 1 wound, each model is recieving 2 wounds, and I'm not dishing out 20 wounds to the unit but, 10 double wound attacks to 10 models only. (sorry if thats worded strangely) Thus even though the unit was flamable, the flaming attack did almost nothing. So the only useful way to use flaming attacks would be against multiple wound models. I.e. chariots, and characters. But then it makes me wonder, where's the point in making 1 wound models flamable in the first place, when it hardly has any effect? :( Not to mention, the entire army is unbreakable so they never have to take leadership tests... Woooo that's fun! :rolleyes:

    To further dive into that question. How may I utilize the flaming attacks of my slamander, further so, against his army. They were still extremely effective against his block of 60 skeles, however.

    MY FINAL QUESTION!!

    Do you get a look out sir against spells?


    -today in the second game I cast dwellers against his block of 60 skeletons, and all of his characters passed they're look out sir rolls thus were not subject to the strength test. This seems to be legit, however it doesn't make sense to me. How can you use look out sir against something that happens without warning, and in an instant?


    SO this was a long post and I aplogize, but it was a very frustrating day for me. These questions keep coming up, and to me the rule book isn't very clear about any of these. (or maybe it is lol) We could not figure it out though and many issues arose as result. I am going to make another thread in regards how I can tactically handle his list in future games. I officially dispise chariots. A block of 9 of them (3 ranks, 4 wide) 4D6 + 4 strength 6 impact hits and killed 17 temple guard in one charge, as they were wounding on 2's... SERIOUSLY WTFF :jawdrop:


    Anyways, thanks for taking the time to read through this long and whiny post!!! Any feedback at all qould be greatly appreciated, and everyone has been extremely helpful in all of my questions so far! :) :) :)
     
  2. Vallek
    Cold One

    Vallek Member

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    Unlike most of my posts I shall keep this short and sweet.

    Does killing blow count as a magical attack?

    No, attacks must specifically state they are magical to be magical. If the Killing Blow ability came from a magic weapon it would be.. if it is a creature ability then it is not.

    Do flaming attacks count as magical attacks?

    No, since you said the source of the flaming ability were from a banner then the only thing magical is the banner. The banner is granting the unit flaming attacks only, not magic. If your friend still disputes point to the Hellfire Banner in the new VC book that specifically grants BOTH flaming and magical attacks.

    Do you get a look out sir against spells?

    ONLY against template spells. Since dwellers targets every model instead of using a template he would not get LoS rule.
     
  3. Skubzilla
    Skink

    Skubzilla New Member

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    Thankyou very much for clearing up the magical attacks. Upron reviewing the TK rule book, I realized the character in question was a Tomb Herald which has special ability killing blow. I do not believe he has a magical weapon, therefore he can not hurt my Slann with Killing Blow. The War sphinx also would not get killing blow, so this is great news for me.

    In terms of the flaming attacks, also good news, and I will use that exact argurment with the Vampire count rulebook. :)

    As for the LoS rules, do you know where I can prove this in the rule book. Does it say so under the Look Out Sir? I couldn't find this anywhere, but I completely agree with what you are saying as that makes a lot of sense, in regards to templates, and such!

    All in All... Thanks for the help!
     
  4. Moniker
    Kroxigor

    Moniker Member

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    Birona's Timewarp is cast during the magic phase and ends at the beginning of your next magic phase, so you should be able to use it in your combat. Example:

    Movement:
    Slann + Temple Guard charge successfully.
    Magic:
    Slann casts his spells as normal.
    Shooting:
    Nobody can target the unit the Temple Guard have engaged.
    Close Combat:
    The Temple Guard fight the enemy while the buff remains active on them for this round of combat and in the following round of combat during the enemies turn.
     
  5. Arli
    Skink Priest

    Arli Moderator Staff Member

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    Another tactic is to cast Birona's in the first round of the game. That way, on your second turn, you get the boosted movement. So, in the TG unit, you would be movement 8 plus your 2d6. Now, it is important to note that you have to recast that spell if you wish to benefit from it in close combat. I would suggest casting the higher version in the first turn because your opponent may let it go because combat is not likely that early. Then, when in combat, cast the smaller version on a key combat along with speed of light to get the WS10 I10 rerolls plus extra attacks.

    My favorite lore is light.
     
  6. Durandal
    Cold One

    Durandal Member

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    Page 45 of the rulebook address multiple wounds. Models that suffer more then 1 wound but only have a single wound die instantly, and the excess are wasted. Where it matters with single wound models is Combat Resolution, which is based on wounds, not casualties. Killing 10 flammable models with flaming attacks gives you a massive 20 CR right off the bat.
    Multiwound models are a little different; you determine how many wounds each model hit suffers, tally them up, and then remove whole models.
     
  7. Caprasauridae
    Stegadon

    Caprasauridae Well-Known Member

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    Just a little clarification, no Tomb King UNIT is flammable, only their characters, like Tomb Kings/Princes and Heralds, are. And as Vallek says, attacks are only magical, if they come from magical weapon or from a spell that directly says that it makes the attacks magical. So even if your opponent casts the Cursed Blades spell, which gives the unit Killing Blow, it doesn't make the attacks magical as the spell doesn't say so. Tomb Guard used to have naturally magical attacks, but for some reason they were removed.
     
  8. Vallek
    Cold One

    Vallek Member

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    I know this is a little late, but I was out of town for a few days.

    pg. 93 of the BRB, bottom of the page where "Look Out Sir" is detailed.

    "If a champion is hit by a template as described above, there is a good chance a comrade will shout a warning or physically push him clear of incoming harm. [ect]"

    The paragraph it is referencing above:

    Describes how champions can't be targeted by ranged attacks.. "The only exception to this are shooting attacks that do not use the normal shooting rules, SPECIFICALLY shooting attacks that use some form of template (such as cannons, stone throwers, breath weapons, and so on."

    These two sections clearly show that LoS is for templates only
     

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