I love them, I put in a scar-vet and it is a crushing unit when it gets into position I run with 5 of them since that is all I have
overlooked? i don't know what the warhammer players at your place put on the table but here we see a lot of lizzie armys that contain a unit of 5 with sometimes a veteran. so well, they are our knights, and that's how they act
i mean overlooked compared to other cav, i mean at 35 points a model for a 2+ save strength 5/4 t4 stupidity and hvy cav mov the main reason im wanting opinions is im thinking of running a unit of 14 lead by a scar-vet in a 1500 point game, ive never used them in a game before and and of stats they dont match up to empire knights which is what im use to fielding in blocks of 15
I've always loved them, but I am also a great fan of cavalry in general. Now if only GW would redo the rather silly looking Cold Ones. I have a friend who converted his to use the new Dark Elf Cold Ones and they look great. At their price however I would probably only field them in units of 6 or so. Typically 7 wide will not be able to get entirely into combat, especially against smaller bases. Most cavalry don't win fights based on static resolution so to field a big enough number to get that always seems counter productive to me. I would rather field smaller units and use them on the flanks, or to assist my block units buy additional hitting power on a flank.
They are expensive for what we get. But there isn't much else we can use for their position. Kroxi's are more expensive then CoR and CoR do their job better... love huanchi's blessed totem OmG And stegadons are great too but everybody would just avoid them or shoot them down as fast as they can anyways. Our CoR are no match for killing other Heavy Cav. But that isn't their job. We rely on magic or saurus to somewhat deal with knights. Sallies maybe ? Lizzies always had problems with knights armies (empire,WoC, bretonnia) [atleast i do..] But just watch them hit in a flank of some block infantery or even headon to something decent. ( no elite inf) Then you will know why you took them . I would never field them as a block of 17. Rather units of 5 with a Scar-vet in it.
Yeah, our hev cav isn't suited for large numbers as I see it.. Love taking 5-6 with a banner and threatn a flank. Put in a Scar-vet, and you got yourself a dangerous unit that your opponent is likely to focus a lot of hitting power to stand up against. I always preffere these guys as my nr. 1 hammer
I agree that 15 is a bit too much to field them in... Try 8 including charcter if you really want one (6 across and two to absorb wounds) with full command and the war banner, will be much cheaper than a unit of 15 and will do exactly the same job minus the numbers. But really, against most units, once you kill a few you are going to outnumber anyway. My list unfortunately doesn't include a unit, but that is only because I couldn't afford the points to fit them in. If they had better models, I am sure they would be in there, models are important to me as well as army effectiveness. They are very cool, and while they are expensive remember they do get 2 attacks each, only drop to s4 in subsequent rounds (most cav drop to s3) and cause fear. They are right up there with dragon princes and chaos knights in terms of heavy cavalry.
I have not had too much of an issue when hitting other armies heavy calv with mine. As long as you get the charge you are going to cause more wounds and then auto break them due to fear.
Saurus cav are a touch slowcompared to a lot of cavalry though, so they aren't exactly guaranteed to get the charge. Still, with 2 attacks each and s4 plus attacks from the cold ones they should have an ok chance of beating a charging unit of cavalry, or definitely at least sticking around to beat them in the next round.
That is also very good to give infantry the jump as well. I guess it provides cold ones with more of a boost since they really hit a lot harder on the charge and benefit greatly from it. There is a strong case for the warbanner too.... Guaranteed charge, or 1+ combat res? Hmmmm..
i had a game using a 14 strong unit lead by a scar vet with hornet blade killed 2 blocks of WOC with only 1 casulty in return and and then spent the game playing ring a ring a roses with a unit of choas night, game ended up in a solid victory for me, but i would say that is mainly due to the choas giant falling over when jumping up and down, causeing no damage then losing 4 wounds from my saurus with spears and then being buchered as it trys to run away but with the cav i have a game against a khorne deamon army on thursday so shall see how they do, and haveing the 2 ranks really helps with combat res
i feel that the new edition of the saurus cav has seen them become almost obsolete. Name one thing that a unit of suped up cav can do that a unit of saurus warriors of equal points can't do. yes cav are excellent shock units but expensive and stupid (in the rules that is), unlikley i know but everyone will agree that this rule pops up at the most inconveneint of times. you can buy 3 saurus with hw/shld for one of them and have points left over!! (break out the spears!!!!) eg/. unit of saurus cav : 5 (this really is the optimum amount if you do take them then you throw in the carnosaur) = 175pts with no command upgrades (in bed and dont have book within 2 meters) Attacks = 10 st4/5, 5s 4. Save = 2+ (oh yea !!!) unit of saurus (with spears of course!) which i run in units of 12 for the best frontage = 144 + 30 = 174pts!! Attacks = 13/25 s4 !!!!!! Save= 4+ (pretty sure it is anyway) This is the best number as a saurus unit no longer needs to worry about static combat res why? because they get so many attacks!!!! quite simple. May the Mathhammer god see fit!!!! i have been playing 4k team games (2k per person) latley against a deamon and chaos mortal duo (my ally being high elves so it works nicley into the fluff.....anyway) and I found that having 2 detached units of 12 on the sides of temple gaurd formation is an amazing way to protect flanks as the saurus can hold thier own against most of your unit types (they beat VC grave gaurd!!!!) . protected by an engine of the gods (OMG i might have to start a rave thread on these awesome beasts, we truely are blessed) using burning death lightning thing (The Burning Alignment) can make even heavy cavalry think twice about coming closer. Summary: These guys used to be the mainstay of my armies but know there really is no NEED for them and i say NEED because why the heck not take them if you've bought them!!!. But from a gaming veiw the saurus warriors have replaced the cav as our sturdy, reliable, cheap means of fighting the evil armies of our opponents.
While your breakdown on the number of attacks is true and all, you are dismissing the increased movement of the cavalry over the foot slogging saurus. In a game where you can win or loss in the movement phase I say never overlook the ability to move faster than foot slogging troops. The stupidity is frustrating when it hits, but such as life I suppose. Speaking of Stupidity, for those mathhammer curious, assuming no errors on calculating the odds, on a Cold Blooded Leadership test of 7 the probability of success is 0.8000926 or 80% of rolling a 7 or less on 3D6 discarding the highest die. So barring atrocious dice rolling (see my dice rolling as an example of that) you should succeed 4 out of 5 times on your stupidity tests. If your Leadership 8 Saurus Hero joins the unit probability of success is 0.893519 or 89%.
As well as the movement value, which I agree is a big advantage, you also need to consider that cold ones cause fear. This also makes them immune to fear. Saurus will have the trouble of fear against undead, demons etc. while cold ones will have the trouble of stupidity. Both works out about the same chance of charging, except against non fear causing opponents it can be quite a benefit. It is true that cold one knights are pretty expensive though.. From a general perspective, their points are about right, maybe a tiny tiny bit high. But when you look at the LM army as a whole and how they fit in... I would love to be able to afford a unit of them in my 2k army, but I cannot when I crave a carnosaur, at least 2 stegs and as few skinks as possible.
They are alot of points but stat wise... they are practically the same as chaos nights (not chosen of course) except i believe that the cold one is stronger than there mounts though im not sure about that... anyways the saurus cav are up there with the best cav in the game
(Just a newbish question) I was just wondering, if saurus riding cold ones are slower then most cavalry, and Dark Elves ride cold ones too, would that make their cavalry slow compared to other armies? That seems odd for Elves to be slow... But anyway, on topic, I would play with saurus cavalry just because they look cool . And as an Eldar player in 40k, I can definatly say from experiance that speed and manouverability have their advantages.
Yeah DE cold ones have the same speed. You need to remember that their infantry all move 5", so the cold ones are capable of keeping up with the main line and hitting at the same time. If DEs want some real speed, they look to the dark riders who have a whopping 18" charge range and can outmanouvre almost anything in the game.