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8th Ed. Scaly Skin DOESN'T stack with Scaly Skin - EDIT

Eladimir
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Eladimir

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THE FAQ UPDATE ON THE BRB MEANS THAT SCALY SKIN DOESN'T STACK WITH SCALY SKIN
SEE THE LATER POSTS FOR THE EXACT TEXT

Not to reopen the debate here but I was reading this page
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2012/05/wfb-rules-oft-forgotten.html
of oft forgotten rules and read this gem

Special Rules are Cumulative (p.66)
Unless noted otherwise, special rules are indeed cumulative. So if you have Armour Piercing twice, you inflict an extra -2 to saves, or if you have Extra Attacks multiple times, you get an extra attack for each instance of the rule.

Ie Magic resistance stacks with magic resistance

So why doesn't scaly skin special rule stack?

If I'm way off base here let me know so I can delete the thread before things get out of hand.
 
Re: Scaly Skin should stack with Scaly Skin

I'm a little confused. Where in the book do we have an option to stack scaly skin? Do you mean from the Lore of Metal spell or something? I'm pretty sure that one stacks, but I'll have to read the wording again just in case.
 
Re: Scaly Skin should stack with Scaly Skin

I'd rather Scaly Skin not count for Lore of Metal and similar effects, personally.
 
Re: Scaly Skin should stack with Scaly Skin

Just the lore of metal spell as far as I know.

Would give saurus Scaly Skin 5+ special rule twice.
 
Re: Scaly Skin should stack with Scaly Skin

Yep, I agree. The BRB says,
Unless otherwise noted, the effects of multiple special rules are cumulative.
Click to expand...
There is no note in the Scaly Skin rule or the LoM spell (Glittering Robe) that indicates stacking isn't allowed. That'll bring your Saurus to a solid 2+.

Durandal said:
I'd rather Scaly Skin not count for Lore of Metal and similar effects, personally.
Click to expand...
I agree here too. It seems silly that their natural armor would be affected by a spell that targets metal stuff. But then you get into things like skeletons and zombies being immune to poison and whatnot. Just have to take it with a grain of salt.
 
Re: Scaly Skin should stack with Scaly Skin

Thematically I would think of it as turning our scaly friends into metal plated saurus. Kinda like colossus from xmen.
 
Re: Scaly Skin should stack with Scaly Skin

Eladimir said:
Thematically I would think of it as turning our scaly friends into metal plated saurus. Kinda like colossus from xmen.
Click to expand...
This quote alone will get this rule passed in my gaming group. Thank you.
 
Re: Scaly Skin should stack with Scaly Skin

Can you put a page reference up for that?
 
Re: Scaly Skin should stack with Scaly Skin

NEVAR!!!1!

(My bad for not including that. I don't have my book on me at the moment, but it is written on the first page of the Special Rules section. It's the last sentence in one of the first few paragraphs.)
 
Re: Scaly Skin should stack with Scaly Skin

BRB FAQ _

Page 66 – Special Rules, What Special Rules Does It Have
Change “[...]the effects of multiple special rules[...]” to
“[...]the effects of different special rules[...]”Add “However,
unless otherwise stated, a model gains no additional benefit
from having the same special rule multiple times.” to the end of
the first paragraph.

Was a nice, and I was very excited until I saw this on Warseer.....now I am sad.
 
Re: Scaly Skin should stack with Scaly Skin

Holy crap, I've read that rule a dozen times and I've always imagined that there was a "not" before cumulative!

Makes a Metal Slann very tempting now for 2+ armour save Warriors. Also means my Dark Elves will find it easier getting past heavy armour with Enchanted Blades + Banner of Murder/Razor Standard...

EDIT: DAMNIT. I knew it was too good to be true. From the FAQ.

Page 66 – Special Rules, What Special Rules Does It Have
Change “[...]the effects of multiple special rules[...]” to
“[...]the effects of different special rules[...]”Add “However,
unless otherwise stated, a model gains no additional benefit
from having the same special rule multiple times.” to the end of
the first paragraph.

I knew I'd heard that multiple iterations of the same special rule didn't grant benefits.
 
Re: Scaly Skin should stack with Scaly Skin

I would say no, it does not stack. And here are my reasons which were suggested to me from a person on another forum:

From the rule book FAQ:

Page 66 – Special Rules, What Special Rules Does It Have
Change “[...]the effects of multiple special rules[...]” to
“[...]the effects of different special rules[...]”Add “However,
unless otherwise stated, a model gains no additional benefit
from having the same special rule multiple times.” to the end of
the first paragraph.

And:

Page 69 – Extra Attack
Add “Unlike most special rules, the effects of multiple Extra
Attack special rules are cumulative.”

Page 69 – Fight In Extra Ranks
Add “Unlike most special rules, the effects of multiple Fight
In Extra Ranks special rules are cumulative.”

So this would mean that those with having the same special rules multiple times does not stack unless otherwise stated like Extra Attack and Fight in Extra Ranks. There are those rules that allow you to choose the "best" type for the given situation. So, while you could in effect have naturally the Scaly Skin special rule and then Lore of Metal's Glittering Robes which grants the Scaly Skin special rule on the same unit, it could allow you to take the best defense between the two but not allowing it to stack.

Although I do like Eladimir's example of why they should stack, from the FAQ I don't see how it could be.

EDIT: For those interested, I asked this on the WarSeer forums at this thread: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?266641-Glittering-Robe-and-stacking

- Lord Cedric
 
Re: Scaly Skin should stack with Scaly Skin

FAQ screws us over on this one.

Page 66 – Special Rules, What Special Rules Does It Have
Change “[...]the effects of multiple special rules[...]” to
“[...]the effects of different special rules[...]”Add “However,
unless otherwise stated, a model gains no additional benefit
from having the same special rule multiple times.” to the end of
the first paragraph.

Edit: Cedric with the ninja!
 
Re: Scaly Skin should stack with Scaly Skin

Hey, it was worth a shot though. It would have been nice.
 
Re: Scaly Skin should stack with Scaly Skin

Whew, corrected 4 times :oops: Good save, my fellow lizards.

Man, I really need to print out the FAQ for our group. We generally only refer to it when an argument erupts.
 
Re: Scaly Skin should stack with Scaly Skin

Yeah the FAQ is very cut and dry. I consider this resolved. Thanks all.
 
Can't say that's terribly surprising, though it is a bit disappointing. I think it would be hilarious to have Saurus Warriors running about with a 2+/6++.
 
We can cast it on Skinks to give them a 4+ AS still :D (Since the 6+ AS of ranked skinks come from the shield that they are holding, not scaly skin)

4+ AS on skinks cheap and tough :D
 
rothgar13 said:
Can't say that's terribly surprising, though it is a bit disappointing. I think it would be hilarious to have Saurus Warriors running about with a 2+/6++.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I guess GW decided that's broken?

But 2+/5++ Tzeentch Warriors with better Initiative and Weapon Skill? Nah, that's cool.
 
It's 3+/5++ by default, and they can't take Lore of Metal. Another thing to point out is that those Warriors cost 1.5x as much as a Saurus Warrior. The only raw deal Saurus Warriors get is in equipment options - couldn't they at least gotten an AHW option?
 
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