8th Ed. Skavenpelt banner and Skink/Kroxigor units

[Tarendal]

Couple questions.. The Skavenpelt banner can be taken by a skink only, so obviously the skink chief. Say a skink chief is in a mixed unit of skinks and kroxigor. Do the kroxigor benefit from frenzy?

The way I'm reading it, the krox attacks are supporting, and they're limited to 3 supporting attacks, so I'm thinking no, but just curious.

So if I'm right, a 10 wide by 5 deep horde of skinks with 3 krox in the middle, a chief and the skavenpelt banner, would be dealing out 14 poisoned javelins in missile combat, 30 (4 of the chief's) skink and 9 krox attacks per turn until defeated in combat, then down to 20 (3 of the chief's) skink and 9 krox per turn after.

That correct?

Speed of Light, Time Warp, or Shield of Thorns could actually make that a fairly dangerous unit.

 

[strewart]

Yeah you are right, 3 is the maximum number of supporting attacks from monstrous infantry so it wouldn't effect the krox.

 

[rammramm]

However there is nothing in the rules that say you are forced to put the skavenpelt banner in a unit of skinks.

This is a tactic that I havent yet tried out but would be very interested in playing.

You just kit a skink heroe with the banner and stick him in a saurus or TG unit. This will make the saurus as strong as khorne wariors and the TG even better.
Assuming you give the skink some armour and keep the saurus/TG 6 wide he should be able to survive for a while in HtH as well. This is because an enemy is usually not more than 6 models wide. Put the chief on the side because of different-sized bases and he will only have to face one model and 2 supporting attacks because of your enemy having to maximise.

As I said I never tried it and havent discussed it with people so there might be some holes in it. In that case please inform me.

Other than that, have anyone else tried it and what do you think. it ought to be great against skaven as well with the added hatred.

 

[walach]

the main problem with that to my mind is that you cant take a magic armour if you're taking a magic standard on a regular BSB, so his AS is going to be pathetic; against anything half decent a single model + supporting attack is going to have a good chance of killing him.

perhaps if you ran a really wide unit and tried to avoid getting him into contact at all?


eitherways, seems a rather complicated, expensive, and dangerous way to play... let us know if you try it!

 

[Bibamus]

its too risky imo, maybe on an anciet steg to give the steg 1 more attack and teh crew aswell... but thats hardly worth it. alltough if you want 18" range on the BSB reroll it might work,

 

[strewart]

However there is nothing in the rules that say you are forced to put the skavenpelt banner in a unit of skinks.

This is a tactic that I havent yet tried out but would be very interested in playing.

You just kit a skink heroe with the banner and stick him in a saurus or TG unit. This will make the saurus as strong as khorne wariors and the TG even better.
Assuming you give the skink some armour and keep the saurus/TG 6 wide he should be able to survive for a while in HtH as well. This is because an enemy is usually not more than 6 models wide. Put the chief on the side because of different-sized bases and he will only have to face one model and 2 supporting attacks because of your enemy having to maximise.

As I said I never tried it and havent discussed it with people so there might be some holes in it. In that case please inform me.

Other than that, have anyone else tried it and what do you think. it ought to be great against skaven as well with the added hatred.

Heres a crazy thought. Stick the skink on a horned one so he can fit in the saurus/TG unit cleanly, it will also improve his armour save significantly and dish out more attacks. In fact, I am tempted to try it out. Still, its a fragile BSB target for opponents to hit no matter what you give it.

 

[Bibamus]

Heres a crazy thought. Stick the skink on a horned one so he can fit in the saurus/TG unit cleanly, it will also improve his armour save significantly and dish out more attacks. In fact, I am tempted to try it out. Still, its a fragile BSB target for opponents to hit no matter what you give it.

horned one = magic item
skavenpelt banner = magic banner

see the problem? otherwise you could give him some magic armour and solve he problem

 

[strewart]

horned one = magic item
skavenpelt banner = magic banner

see the problem? otherwise you could give him some magic armour and solve he problem

See the LM FAQ. Horned One no longer counts as a magic item, just a mundane mount option. GW realised it was retarded and changed it.

I don't see the problem.

 

[walach]

hmm, i read that more like it can't be destroyed/negated like a magic item, rather than it no longer being a magic item at all...

Might as well post the section here:

Q. Does a Horned One count a magic item for rules purposes, or is it
only a special type of cavalry mount ? (p101)
A. It is only a cavalry mount.


Certainly if you can take one as well as a magic banner, then i think there's real possibility for the combo.

 

[n810]

I think it still might exced his 50pt allowance....

but you could put him on a terradon or stegadon...

 

[wolfmage]

If he no longer counts as magic item that's great as most of our characters can take it, take multiple of it, and it eliminates the old-blood on cold one giving stupidity to saurus.

 

[Bibamus]

i see your point, but i'd have to run it by my community. the old rules specified it was for effects that destroy magic items, but the wording is clearly different now.

and for the point cost, it would make sense to be able to give skinks a mount since its allmost double the cost of a normal cold one and the benefits are rather crappy really

 

[strewart]

hmm, i read that more like it can't be destroyed/negated like a magic item, rather than it no longer being a magic item at all...

Might as well post the section here:

Q. Does a Horned One count a magic item for rules purposes, or is it
only a special type of cavalry mount ? (p101)
A. It is only a cavalry mount.


Certainly if you can take one as well as a magic banner, then i think there's real possibility for the combo.

Hmm I never considered that interpretation, nor have I heard it before... Definitely can see how you could conclude that though. As a reasonable counter point, you could say since it 'no longer counts as a magic item for rules purposes', what rules does it mean? All of them, including the 50 point limit on items and the not combining magic items with a magic banner? They are certainly rules for magic items. I am fairly sure it is intended that it only counts as a normal mount now. But the FAQ is unclear (go GW!) so it could go either way I guess.

 

[Bibamus]

you know that FAQ topic in gen. discussion thats stiky and locked? apparently it still has the old FAQ, you might want to look into that.

now, this is what it says (for 7th) abot the horned one

Q. Can a Horned One be destroyed by the
Lore of Metal spell Law of Gold, or turned into
a normal Cold One by the High Elf spell Vaul's
Unmaking? As an Enchanted Item, the Horned
One is a valid target for the spell.
A. Why not! However, we suggest that all of
these effects should only turn the Horned One
into a normal Cold One, rather than destroying
it altogether, so that the model does not need
replacing.


if we compare it to the current one it might just aswell be that the horned one doesn't go under magic items (doesn't fill up the enchanted item slot, doesn't use up the characters point allowance, can take multiples of it, doesn't createa conflict with a BSB+Magic Banner)

 

[TheRolfgar]

hmm, i read that more like it can't be destroyed/negated like a magic item, rather than it no longer being a magic item at all...

Might as well post the section here:

Q. Does a Horned One count a magic item for rules purposes, or is it
only a special type of cavalry mount ? (p101)
A. It is only a cavalry mount.


Certainly if you can take one as well as a magic banner, then i think there's real possibility for the combo.

Hmm I never considered that interpretation, nor have I heard it before... Definitely can see how you could conclude that though. As a reasonable counter point, you could say since it 'no longer counts as a magic item for rules purposes', what rules does it mean? All of them, including the 50 point limit on items and the not combining magic items with a magic banner? They are certainly rules for magic items. I am fairly sure it is intended that it only counts as a normal mount now. But the FAQ is unclear (go GW!) so it could go either way I guess.

Even though the FAQ is fairly vague I don't see any way of ruling it besides the horned one counting for all rules as a calvary mount. If it still counted against the magic item limit, but acted like a calvary mount then it would be the same as what is written in our army book and we wouldn't need the FAQ.


Edit: With hero costs being % you could have a unit of mounted skink chiefs...probably a horrible idea

 

[Tarendal]

Thanks for the thoughts everyone. I'm not sure if I ever want to go this route, but have been considering it.. Say a horde of skinks, with 3-4 krox, a chief with the skavenpelt banner, and a lore of life slann raising their toughness, maybe even casting that spell that does 2d6 wounds on any unit in base contact with it. Javelins for some extra punch, and stand and shoot responses. Could be a surprisingly good unit. Costly, but nice.