7th Ed. Skinks - Skirmishers or fighters?

Hiya,

I recently started Warhammer (Empire) but I figured I'd see if I like lizardmen better. I hardly play the game but I like the painting, so I can't be bothered to make an army list yet. I want some units first and play with it and proxy to see what extra's I want. Basically I just want to paint some models, but if I decide to make it an army in the future, I don't want them to be useless.

So I got me some skinks. I see there are skink fighters and skink skirmishers. Is either of these considered more or less useful? (Something like, for example, 'everyone uses 1 or 2 units of skirmishers but only themed armies use fighters').

I don't wanna finish painting these first models, get into the lizard army and then find out I build a useless unit. My pace is so slow it would take me a couple of months to replace them

 

skirmishers are mandatory to any army list, while the ranked ones (fighters) are harder to use and some like them, some dont. i for example never use them becuase of their lack of survivability, others use them to redirect and some even use them together with kroxigors

 

Well there aren't really any "skink fighters" but there are ranked skinks and skirmishing skinks. They are the same models so you can use them as both, but the ranked skinks always have javelins & shields while the skirmishers have either blowpipe (a far superior choice) or javelin and shields.

Personally I always take both. The ranked skinks are amazing redirectors but takes time to use properly. They are also pretty fragile but if an opponent waste shoots or spells on a 50 pt trash unit they will have done their job. If you're not sure what your future list is gonna look like you should model them with blowpipes, as binamus says: they are in every LM list, unlike the cohort units.

 

Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for and I even like the answer (blowpipes are way cooler )

 

Since you played empire.. think of ranked skinks like ranked shortbows....
except with shorter range.... and some other stuff.
basicly they are better at shooting then at fighting.

 

Ranked skinks are an amazing unit in every conceivable way. They are some of the worst direct fighters available, but have a staggering movement speed of 6, despite being ranked. This means they can easily break ranks, unlike skirmishers. A flank bonus, negating three ranks, and causing outnumber is super helpful, the flanks of only a very few units will be able to kill 5 or more guys to make it a bad idea to have them there. Their javelins are quite a help, but they do carry shields, and so are on par with skeleton archers in melee, and more or less comparable to goblins. (trading T for I, which is not super great)

They have a ton of dumb tricks they can use and are super versatile, with kroxigors they become amazing hero assassination units, and can contribute far more to flank attacks etc.

Blowpipes are not always better for skirmishers. Often I equip my skirmishers with javelins, and I find it quite helpful against other skirmishers. (which often put you hitting on 7's, especially when in woods or other cover) Javelins usually hit on 4's, so skirmishers in the woods are still vulnerable to poisonous attacks, and the shields help far more then you would think when fighting other things like empire rangers and elven or skaven harassment teams.

The sad fact I have noticed is that the vast majority of people who play warhammer are not very creative, and tend to spam the same stuff over and over again, and it is usually the "power" units. Further, most people have the luxury of fixing their army against a limited number of opponents, or know in advance who they will face. A truly balanced list can not be made in these circumstances.

If you primarily paint, I would advise you let your own personal aesthetics guide your decisions, but it wouldn't hurt to hash together some musicians, banner bearers, or even champions for your skinks just in case.

 

In my most humble and personal experiance I find that you just can't beat a cheap rank and file unit. Even having just one in your army will help out tremendously.

Besides the flank bonus' you gain from charging a healthy unit in the side but you can also use smaller units of ten to redirect charges, thus allowing other units to gain flank and rear charges on units. Plus with their fast movement they can cross the board in swift order.

 

i wouldn't even dream of charging a unit with a unit of 10 skirmishers, not even in the flank. the CR difference they create is 4 (-3 ranks +1 flank charge) wich can be easly won back if the enemy unit kills 4 skinks.
same thing with combo charges, if they kill 5 or more skinks its even worse since you lost more than you got from charging

they are great for redirect or absorbing fire or even a stand and shoot reaction vs large targets can be helpfull, but otherwise i'd keep them away from combat without at least 1 kroxigor

 

Skirmishers don't break ranks, so charging skink skirmishers into the flank is silly. They most likely won't kill anything and they will be killed back fairly easily.

Cohorts, on the other hand, do break ranks. If you get the chance to charge something in the flank it might be worth it. A typical 2 x5 Cohort Unit can swing static CR in your favor by 6(-3 ranks, 1 rank, Flank, Outnumber(possible)). So the question you have to ask yourself is, how much static CR swing will I get vs how much active CR (kills) will my cohorts give away.

It isn't a revelation, I expect, that skinks will die easily. But at the end of the day, the other guy will only have a 3+ to hit (barring the -1 to hit sword) and will only ever have so many attacks. If the unit you are charging a unit that only has 1 attack per model, they will never be able to kill enough skinks to swing the static CR.

For that reason, I've started running a full 20 Cohorts with banner as a detachment for my Carnosaur Lord and Stegadons. The unit is only 108 points, is very quick, and gives the Static CR to match my Dinosaurs killiness. Also, the opponent can only capture the banner if the cohorts are broken or destroyed in close combat, so if they are going to be charged by just about anything, run.

 

i ment chorot before, i'm used to refer to skinks as skirmishers so i automatically wrote skirmishers.
also, it really depends what you are charging in the flank, but odds are, if you cahrge something you skinks can beat it means you didn't need to combo charge anyway

 

Fair enough on the skirmishers vs cohorts. I didn't want the discussion to become confused.

I agree that it does depend on what you are charging. But I disagree that if I could win with Cohorts it isn't worth a combo charge. Winning a combat is not the same as winning a combat by 4 or 5. Winning a combat by 1 will give you poor chances of breaking most units, while winning by 4 or 5 will give you a good chance against most (Stubborn excluded).

Also, combo charging with a cheap static CR unit in combination with a potentially high active CR generation unit can do several things for you. It can help mitigate the amount you will lose by if your active CR unit fluffs. It can also allow your combined units to take on an enemy that either of your units couldn't normally beat.

 

i do see the benefits, but the cost of that is giving away free CR with T2 units, the prospect of wich i do not like. each of us is free to use them as they see fit, i for one will never used ranked skinks to charge unless accompanied by a kroxigor or 2, i just don't like the odds of such a combat. this is me, others might have success with them, its your choice but i advise against it.

 

Go for skirmishers all the way.... I was at the same point of you a month ago or so and trust me, they are miles better and can be way more useful.

 

Definitely go with the skirmishers if you are just starting an army. They can easily make up their cost in points if you manage to hide in a woods and double-shoot the crap out of the enemies flanking units. Additionally, skirmishers are perfect for distracting and eventually baiting the enemies elite units by threatening flanks and rears, or fleeing from charges. Cohorts are good yes, but in a small points set-up, the lizardmen need to have at least one heavy hitting infantry unit in the form of saurus or temple guard, and cohorts just don't cut it.