how am i suppose to be using my skink skirmishers do i advance them right up or keep them infront o my battle line until the enemy get close. then angle them to redirect the enemy. or if they are charged am i suppose to flee?
How you use the skirmishers depends on what role you want them to play. If attrition is important, then care needs to be taken to keep them out of charge range/arc so they can sneak down the flanks and then close in and fire away. Unless you have a unit(s) ready to make a counter move, there is no point in using skirmishers to bait and flee other than perhaps slowing down a death star. Conversely, sometimes they just have to "take one for the team" to redirect and/or delay the death star/big nasty. This is particularly useful against frenzied troops since they must overrun [let's face it, there are not going to be any skirmishes left after a round of combat against frenzied troops so a pursuit isn't an option] - just don't tell the skinks that or they might get skittish
What stone cutter said. In my last two games I used them well and badly. My first game against undead they were awesome baiting his vampire units and stalling his black knights till I was ready to hit them. In my next game against skaven they got gunned down and magiced in the first couple of turns. I had pushed them up needlessly, lesson learned.
Just one more item to add regarding the use of skirmishers - they are steadfast in woods!! If placed in a formation to minimize contact from the enemy (i.e. single file or ranks of 2), even a small unit can hold an enemy at bay if they are within range of the slaan. Not only does this allow a good flank charge (if set up properly), but it can get the majority of the enemy unit caught in the woods where they themselves lose steadfast due to ranks. Sallies are definitely better at this than skirmish skinks but I have done it successfully with skirmishers as well.
Nice side note. Some dryads did that to my carnosaur the other day. They got wild formed too and that is scary stuff. I did at that, those cursed skirmishers nearly cost me the game holding up my beloved knights like that.
Some opponents have such disregard for maneuverability in this edition that they fail to take cavalry, flyers or redirectors at all instead concentrating on monsters, wizards and huge infantry units. There is a similar case where opponents take so few fast response units or use them poorly so that they can all be killed by Drop Rocks or Chameleons skink alpha strike. In either of these cases, 600 points put into Terradons, Chameleons, Salamanders and humble Skink Skirmishers can give you almost limitless control of the battle. A Horde unit cannot kill a unit of 5 Chameleon Skinks until YOU want them to and the same unit of 5 could chill 1" from his flank making wheeling very difficult indeed (or impossible if you use 2 units, but this is universally discouraged as poor form). Let's go hunting for a random lists on the internet: Orc Warboss - Armor of Destiny, Potion of Toughness, Enchanted Shield, Dragonbane Gem, Luckstone Orc Great Shaman - Level 4, Fencer's Blades, Talisman of Preservation, Potion of Toughness (illegal!) Black Orc Big Boss - BSB, Charmed Shield 38 Orc Big Uns - 2X Choppas, Flag, Musician 50 Night Goblins - Bows, Musician 29 Black Orcs - Flag, Musician Spear Chukka Spear Chukka Spear Chukka Spear Chukka 6 Trolls Goblin Doom Diver Snotling Pump Wagon - Spiky Rollers Wow I picked a good example. It is not a great list to start with though. Let's say you have this (which is under points, but the above list isn't optimised so...) Slann - Life and stuff Saurus - 25 blah blah Saurus - 25 blah blah Temple Guard - 25 blah blah black sheep Terradons - 3 Terradons - 3 Terradons - 3 Chameleons - 5 Chameleons - 5 Salamander Salamander The Pump Wagon is the only unit that can hunt your skirmishers but it will immediately die as soon as it tries. Your Terradons get to eat war machines for free points for the first 2 turns of the game. With no fast units left you are free to advance your Salamanders up the field. Basically you will have 3 turns to freely cast Dwellers and shooting flaming attacks. You could even shoot the Salamanders at the Trolls as a single wound would then make them sitting ducks against poison for that phase (only recommended if you don't take the Banner of Eternal Flame on Temple Guard). By turn 4 you've sacrificed all your Terradons and Chameleons and combat happens, but the Orcs will probably be effectively 2 units down (between Dwellers and Salamanders). TLDR The point I'm trying to make is that having skirmishers is like having a full toolbox. They are very flexible and use and can greatly strengthen the other elements in your army depending on what you need for each battle.
I normally have something like 3 units of skink skirmishers sometimes more (a lot more somtimes) and sometimes only 1-2 + chameleons. I always have 1 or 2 units to act as redirectors for the units I fear the most/need to redirect and 1-2 units who go up the flanks to thin down the enemy. Actually sometimes the same unit does both. In the case of O&G that I play agianst the most my skinks go up to kill Giants, pump wagons and chariots, but also stay at an angle so if some of his units wants to charge them, they will get redirected in the direction I want. (as an aside note. Can giants/chariots and single models in general pivot after a pursuit move? I don't think so myself and never played with it, but dunno really)
Redirect - but be cagey about it. Don't throw them away just because you can redirect; make sure that everything else is in position. If you don't need to redirect right at that point, then hold them back. I can give you two excellent examples of how to use Skink skirmishers and how not to use them, both from my last game. The distances and positioning isn't exact as I am working from memory, but you get the idea. Example One - Bait and Switch So here we have the left flank of the battlefield. There's some other stuff going on but these three units are key: 6 menacing looking Skullcrushers, one unit of Skink Skirmishers, and a unit of Skink-Kroxigor. Although there are 3 Kroxigor, the unit would get hammered by a Skullcrusher charge. In my first turn, I have re-positioned the Skinks so that they are slightly further forward and at a better angle to redirect - but I haven't pushed them up to bait just yet. I want my Skroxigor and the Skullcrushers in a slightly better position before springing the trap. With a big, monster-killing swamp in the middle of the battlefield, the Skullcrushers have little choice but to heplfully run straight forwards. In my turn 2 the Skinks run into position to pull the Skullcrushers off at an angle. Being Frenzied they have to charge and have to overrun, which... ... Leaves them perfectly open to a flank charge! The Kroxigor kill two 'Crushers and a handful of Skinks die, but thanks to static CR and wounds inflicted I win the combat, the 'Crushers fail a modified leadership test and promptly flee off the battlefield. Not even a problem. Example Two - How Not to Do It Here's the right hand flank after my turn 1. Again there's some more stuff going on but I've kept the critical pieces. Unlike my example above, my positioning here is all over the place: the Skirmishers have gone forward almost their full 12". They're in position to redirect the Gorebeast chariot, but they are equally open to a flank charge from the Disco Lord. If he takes it he can be into my battleline in a heartbeat. I've put the Scar-Vet there as bait for him, which he takes, but this is turn 1 - I've no need to take risks like this so early in the game. All I've done is exposed my Scar-Vet and given a relatively slow moving unit an extra charge and overrun roll. Moreover, look at the positioning of the Forsaken - unless they want to go through the Forest, they are either going to be blocking up the chariot's slower movement, or will be blocked by the Chariot themselves; either way by offering a charge I am giving them an avenue to advance through that they wouldn't otherwise have. In fact, that's exactly what happens - the Scar-Vet gets charged and killed by the Disco lord, and the Gorebeast Chariot charges in to the Skinks with the Forsaken moving in to the gap behind. But I make another miscalculation: the chariot doesn't do quite enough damage to beat the Skinks steadfast; meanwhile they are blocking a counter charge from the Cavalry, who end up taking an Eye of the Gods buffed Disco lord and doing nothing the rest of the game until being killed to a Saurus. If I'd been a bit more cagey and held back initially like I did on the left flank, I could have used the time to get into a better position to set up the counter-charge, forced my opponent to make a difficult decision with the Forsaken and had an extra magic round to deal with the Chariot/Disco Lord. As it was I practically threw away all three units here just by placing the Skirmishers (and Scar-Vet) unnecessarily far forward. Incidently this game was against the new Warriors book and I have a full battle report, alas with no pictures, which I can put up if there is sufficient interest.
very nicley explained. one question though with the chariot on the skinks how where they steadfast i thought skirmishers are only steadfast in forrests? would love to read that battle report. i guess unless you are facing alot of shooting/magic it is best to hold back then spring the trap. the thing i find is though it gets rarer anad rarer that frenzys have to charge normally there is a bsb nearby so they get to reroll frenzy test. the only good thing is if they charge and win they have to overun. What about units that are not frenzy they will just kill the skinks and reform so that nice little flank charge you would of had is now in the front
Actually, the skinks should not have been steadfast since skirmish units cannot benefit from the normal ranks and steadfast rules (page 77, "light troops"). The skinks should have fled with the chariot either pursuing or remaining in place if it passed a restrain LD check, leaving the CoC free to charge. Very nice battle diagrams though and the first series is a perfect demo of how to use skirmish skinks effectively.
You're right guys! We totally overlooked that during the game, which is a shame as it might have gone much better for me With regards to non-Frenzied troops, redirecting with Skinks can buy you some valuable time. For example, it can stop them pulling off a flank charge into another combat - even if the Skinks win and the unit reforms, they've still wasted a turn and a charge. It can be used to buy some time for an extra magic/shooting/combat round before that unit can join the combat, or to divide up an attack peicemeal. You can use a unit of Skinks to prevent two units charging one of yours in the same round, by redirecting one away, or stop one unit charging in their turn with their magic buffs, and allow your unit to charge in your turn when you can get some buffs off. Whether the unit is Frenzied or not, careful placement can force them into difficult decisions that are beneficial for you. Here's a quick overview of the left flank and centre of the battlefield. Look again at the positioning of the Skinks: if the 'Crushers wanted to avoid charging them (which they could have done with an LD10 general and BSB within range), their only choice would be to swift reform and move parallel to the unit. This would have: 1) Put the Skullcrushers in the forest, which is dangerous for monstrous cavalry, and risky for any ranked up unit. 2) Bunch his units up, reducing room for manoeuvre, interfering with lines of sight, and increasing exposure to template weapons (you can see my Salamanders on the right getting into prime position). 3) Doesn't stop him from getting redirected in his next turn, potentially jamming up his whole line, and forcing a dangerous terrain test when he charges. 4) Doesn't stop the Skink-Kroxigor from potentially still getting off a flank charge, only this time the 'Crushers would be in a forest, facing dangerous terrain tests, and offering me excellent overruns or pursuits into the flank of his Chosen. If these had been non-Khorne Chaos Knights they would have faced a similar dilemma.
I tend to have hit & miss ability with Skinks. Given that they're a weak, cheap unit, it makes sense that they often just get wiped out. In my last battle, I took two units of 10 against Vampire Counts (not much runs solo in that army, so more seemed like a waste). One unit was bait for a Vargulf that was up on my flank, but since he's not Frenzied like I thought he was, he didn't charge and some Dire Wolves did instead, which drew THEM into a frontal charge on my Saurus, who killed them. So a 76-point sacrifice that offed a 100-ish point unit of Wolves- not super-worth it, but okay enough. The OTHER unit moved upwards, then did TWO wounds to a lone Level 4 Necromancer! Of course he healed back and then the unit got hit by a Mortis Engine. However, INSANE COURAGE left the sole surviving Brave still in base contact with the damn thing. In this end, it was little more than a speed bump that didn't do anything, as the Engine still flanked another Saurus unit.