8th Ed. Skrox ranks in mixed units

[Slaantastic]

Hey gang, do the Kroxigar count as 2 extra ranks when in a mixed unit of skinks if there are 3 or more of them?

 

[HoverBoy]

According to the diagram on page 41 kroxigor count as 4 skinks each so yes, a rank single rank of krox only counts as two ranks in the unit.

 

[GBDarkAngel]

Interesting, i had this very same discussion at our gaming club last week.
My fellow gamers stated that Kroxigor only counted as 1 rank and not 2 as i assumed they did.

 

[HoverBoy]

Thats why we have army books with stuff written in them, noone can argue with printed rules.

 

[Benny6Toes]

Interesting, i had this very same discussion at our gaming club last week.
My fellow gamers stated that Kroxigor only counted as 1 rank and not 2 as i assumed they did.

caveat: if you have a rank of skinks in front and the only remaining models in subsequent ranks are kroxigors, then kroigors count as a single rank.

ex:

sssssssss
kkkkkk
kkkkkk

that's only two ranks; despit how it looks. however, the following sddenly becomes three:

sssssssss
kkkkkks
kkkkkk

 

[HoverBoy]

I'm sorry but no, the army book is clear one krox=four skinks, so both your examples have 3 ranks.

 

[BEEGfrog]

I'm sorry but no, the army book is clear one krox=four skinks, so both your examples have 3 ranks.

I assume this is typo, both examples have 5 ranks due to the big models counting as many of the smaller bases they take the space of. (Edit- Wasn't typo, didn't realise there were 4 Ks to a krox)

However, if you were one skink wider, counting 10 instead of 9 skinks, then the 2nd rank of kroxigors would get their 3 supporting ranks due to the extra supporting ranks fighting rule counting actual models not space equivalents. (except of course that due to strick RAW, krox are only allowed in the 2nd rank of krox units!)

 

[HoverBoy]

No see his unit dosen't have two ranks of krox hes using four "k"s to represent one kroxigor.
So one rank of skinks+ one rank of krox is a 3 rank unit.

 

[BEEGfrog]

Sorry got confused, but the point about number of ranks being different for rank bonus/steadfast and supporting attacks remains true.

 

[SlannRordrin]

This came up this afternoon:

I started with 40 skinks and 5 kroxigor.

Eventually, most of the skinks were killed, leaving 3. At that point I had to bring up the kroxigors. So the unit looked like this (4 ks = 1 krox):

kkssskkkk
kkkk kkkk
kkkk
kk

Each kroxigor is signified by color.

I argued that I had a rank b/c the kroxigor = 6 skinks in the second row. My opponent was steadfast (pun intended?) that I needed 3 kroxigors in the second row (i.e. their front base couldn't be in the front) in order to get the second rank. The diagram in the LM book and the comment to treat a kroxigor as 4 skinks didn't help.

So what is it, 1 rank or 0?

Or, did I epically fail to arrange the unit as the skinks died? Notice the gap between the kroxigors.

 

[vict0988]

its 1 rank! 5 krox x 4 = 20 + 2 skinks =22 20mm bases 9 models per rank, first rank 9 next rank 9 thats youre and four models after the second rank
and by the way it is stated that krox have to be in the second rank unless there is not enough skinks so they can never go to third ie. youre formation is illegal as you have krox in fourth (3) rank.

KKkkKKssKK
KKkkKKkkKK
KKs

i would say that is the only formation they can be in, maybe the skink in third rank on the other side of the krox.

 

[BEEGfrog]

The key question is how many skinks did you have in the front rank initially, and how many skinks were left at the strike rank when the krox had to move to the front rank?

The rules on mixed units aren't clear when you get to situations where casualties start making ranks uneven. If you look at the rules overall and extrapolate from the character rules as well then the key points are to keep it as neat as possible and try to only have gaps in the rear rank, possibly adding on to the outside of the front rank if that will keep the rest of the unit neat.

While the unit has any skinks left the krox count as both 2 wide and two deep. As vict0988 said you count as 9 wide and 2 deep for calculating steadfast and rank bonusses (i.e. 2 ranks for steadfast +1 for rank bonus) and both krox not in front rank can support attack as they are behind a model in the front rank.

You possibly should have the odd skink sticking out side of unit rather than causing gap in the middle.

With the rules for removing casualties from the rear of the unit before reducing the width I am not sure if you should be having the odd skink pop back and forward from the rear rank as vist0988 or pop in and out of the side of the front rank, I can justify both interpretations in my own mind.