8th Ed. Skrox unit in close combat

[gewaltatron]

Hi there,

a few days ago we had the following situation and honestly we were not sure how to handle it:

A big unit of skaven, 5 wide each with 3 attacks on the charge and a character with 4 attacks attacked my skrox unit. The skrox by that time where around 8 skinks and 2 Kroxigors left, 5 wide.

Now the obvious question was, how to distribute the hits/wounds?! Because he had like 21 Attacks and I had only 8 skinks and according to the rule book all attacks with the same initiative strike simultaneously. We ended up throwing dice until the skinks were dead and then put the remaining ones at the kroxigors.

But honestly speaking, for me that seams a little bit odd, because in this way it is much more efficient for the attacker than for the defender...

anyways, how is it handled correctly, does anybody know?!

cheers and thx in advance
-G-

 

[newscales]

I believe the attacker wounds on the skink toughness, but you get the Krox armor save. I have never liked the skrox units because of how confusing it is and the fact that you are wounding Krox on 2s.

 

[david l]

I believe the attacker wounds on the skink toughness, but you get the Krox armor save.

No. That is just making stuff up.


You can only attack what you are in base contact with, so that type is all you can kill. In other words, if the front rank is still skinks, you cannot touch a Kroxigor, no matter how many wounds you inflict.
Remember that contact is determined at each initiative step. The Skaven character probably swings first, and that can knock out enough skinks to force a Kroxigor to the front for the attacks of the regular guys.

 

[THE_LAIR]

To summerise, the 21 attacks would only be directed at skinks. becouse there are no krox in base contact at the moment of striking. doing a maximum total of 8 wounds. if any attacks would have been made at I3 those would have been able to hit the krox if there where any in bese contact at that point.

it might have been possible for the character to keill enough skinks for the rest of the unit to be able to attack the krox if you unit was 8 wide

 

[newscales]

ah. I don't field them because i have no clue how they work. I think we have a tactica on them, which i will promptly go read

 

[Qupakoco]

There is a section in the rule book that says something about "Nothing left to attack!" in the close combat section. Not sure of the exact wording. But yes, it works just like allocating attacks at a character or champion who is not in a challenge. Excess wounds are lost.

 

[gewaltatron]

I believe the attacker wounds on the skink toughness, but you get the Krox armor save.

No. That is just making stuff up.


You can only attack what you are in base contact with, so that type is all you can kill. In other words, if the front rank is still skinks, you cannot touch a Kroxigor, no matter how many wounds you inflict.
Remember that contact is determined at each initiative step. The Skaven character probably swings first, and that can knock out enough skinks to force a Kroxigor to the front for the attacks of the regular guys.

Thx guys, this was actually my understanding but my opponent was already in a bad mood so there was no way in convincing him, especially if I couldn't find any rule book section at that moment stating it clearly.
But for me, yes, I think it is like this!

 

[gewaltatron]

But could one tell me the section(s) in the rule book, in order for me to be able to show it to my opponent. Because I know for sure he will not except this ruling, without proof.

One could argue for instance, that after the skinks are slain the krox would step up, but this would me you have krox with T2 and 6+ AS... (my counter was/would be: that hits a allocated at the start of the initiative step...)

 

[MI_Tiger]

I agree that the most likely RAW is that only skinks can be hit, but this "feels" wrong (not as wrong as wounding Krox as if they had toughness 2, but still ...).

The way we've handled this is to roll the attacks a few at a time. In your example there were 8 skinks left so the skaven player would roll 8 of his attacks. If there were any skinks left alive, he would roll attacks against them. Once all the skinks are dead, he would roll any remaining attacks against the Kroxigor with their actual toughness.

I don't claim that there is any rule backing this up, but seems to be the most fair approach to both the attacker and defender. It does slow the game down, but only slightly, and it doesn't come up very often.

 

[newscales]

thats my whole beef with the unit is that is confusing and unwieldy. monsters and handlers is a pain to resolve, but at least the BRB spells it out. I hope they amend this unit in our new book

 

[Stonecutter]

@gewaltatron : see page 48 for rules on only being able to strike models in base contact. Pg. 50 under striking order covers the issue of initiative & striking order.

Regarding the overkill of skinks and inability to direct some of the spare attacks on krox, that is one of the reasons why skrox are worth taking - the skinks are a meat shield that allows the krox to hit back with relative impunity. The offset is that it is extremely difficult for skrox to win combat if engaging an enemy to the front since the skinks give up so much active combat res. IMHO, this provides a reasonable balance for the unit.

 

[Arli]

That is how we handled it when the number of skinks gets low.

 

[gewaltatron]

ok, that are indeed the rule book sections that put to words what I told my opponent.
Thank you guys so far.

So to summarize, he the kroxigors would have been save until the next turn or for some other initiative step after the attacker and before the kroxigors (if there would have been)

So for example, if a character would have slain lets say have of the skinks, a krox would have had to fill up the front rank and then the attackers in the subsequent initiative step could have allocated their attacks on the kroxigors...

everybody agrees ?



I feel sad that we did not play it by the rules, we played it like MI_Tiger did, which at this point was fair enough, but honestly, if I take into account that the skinks will always die like flies and possibly kill my combat res., I think this little advantage of protecting the kroxigors (which only applies in rare events) is more than fair considering the costs.

 

[Stonecutter]

Gewaltatron, your summary is correct. Just remember that only those models in base contact (and their associated supporting attacks) could attack a krox that was moved forward if the character had killed enough skinks. Those not in contact would still have to attack skinks. Also, don't forget that krox get a stomp at the end of the phase along with their ASL attacks if they are in base contact against something that is "stompable", albeit only a S4 stomp.

With regard to not following the rules and employing an alternate solution such as that MI Tiger uses, full kudos! This is a game after-all and having a fun time is far more important than 100% rule adherence, especially when the latter will bog the game down to a crawl as everyone searches through the BRB, armybooks and various FAQs to research each and every odd situation they encounter.

 

[gewaltatron]

thanks everyone for participating!

Have a nice weekend