8th Ed. Slann channeling like a boss in 8th?

Discussion in 'Lizardmen Discussion' started by gapton, Aug 2, 2013.

  1. gapton
    Saurus

    gapton Member

    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    It just came to me that if we take the channeling discipline, plus Channeling Staff, that means in a total of 6 rounds, we will be getting:

    12 magic phases in 6 rounds
    3 dice thrown per channeling attempt
    1/3 chance of success

    12 x 3 x 1/3 = 12 extra dice per game!

    an ordinary wizard gets 1 power dice 1 dispell dice from channeling per game without channeling staff.

    That is pretty good for under 50 points (discipline + item)!

    If you use it with Wandering Deliberations (8 sig spells), since most sig have low casting value, you get a boost in power dice, and has access to EIGHT spells with generally low casting value, and a WIDE variety of spells for damage/buff/hex etc.

    Sounds like the Slann is gonna be a very flexible caster.
     
  2. rothgar13
    Saurus

    rothgar13 New Member

    Messages:
    85
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    That's not exactly how it works - probabilities are not additive. If you set yourself up for 3 channel attempts at 5+, the correct way to express this mathematically is as follows:

    1-(1-1/3)^3 = 0.704 chance of channeling dice per phase x 12 phases = 8.44 phases per game with bonus dice.

    Not quite as great, but still formidable. I know I'm taking it. :)
     
  3. hardyworld
    Kroxigor

    hardyworld Active Member

    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    82
    Trophy Points:
    28
    rothgar13, you calculated the chance to get more than 0 and then multiplied it by 12 (number of rounds Slann is in play). Your 'average' is the number of rounds per game that the Slann Channels at least 1 die.
     
  4. rothgar13
    Saurus

    rothgar13 New Member

    Messages:
    85
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    True that. There is the possibility of generating more than one die, I forgot to account for that. I'll have to refresh myself on how to calculate the expected number of dice per game - it's been a while since I took Basic Stats and the formulas I remember are giving me fishy results.
     
  5. hardyworld
    Kroxigor

    hardyworld Active Member

    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    82
    Trophy Points:
    28
    gapton didn't forget!
     
  6. gapton
    Saurus

    gapton Member

    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    If each wizard is limited to obtaining ONE die from channeling per turn, then Rothgar13 calculation is correct. (1 minus probability of all three channeling dice failing)

    However if there is no such limit, then my calculation is correct (additive).

    I am assuming you can obtain 3 dice per turn from a Slann, because if you simply want to give the Slann an edge in channeling, all you need to say is "All channeling attempts made by a Slann succeed on a roll of 4+". Very simple.

    Instead, the wording say you roll 2 extra dice. The fact they say "2 extra dice" instead of "suceed on 4+" seems to indicate the original intention was to give the Slann a chance of getting maximum 3 dice extra per turn.

    This also goes well with the removal of Focused Rumination where the Slann can get up to 7 extra power dice per turn.

    It just seems that in the process of "fixing" Focused Rumination, they came up with the idea to give him a slim chance to get 3 extra dice per turn. That way even with the most insane luck, you are limited to 3 dice extra instead of a straight up 7 dice extra in the 7th.

    This also strengthen Slann's dispell power. In 7th he was a strong (imba even) caster and offers nothing special when it comes to defending enemy's magic.

    The Slann is supposed to be the most powerful wizard in WFB, giving him a balanced and limited advantage in both casting/dispelling , instead of a HUGE advantage only in casting, seems like a very reasonable and well thought-out move from GW.
     
  7. rothgar13
    Saurus

    rothgar13 New Member

    Messages:
    85
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Fair enough - that makes it even better than what I initially assumed. Gotta grab me a Channeling Staff. :)
     
  8. Caneghem
    Carnasaur

    Caneghem New Member

    Messages:
    1,410
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Now imagine you are usually going to be channeling an extra dispel die as well, you can take the discipline to have the Slann squirrel away a single dice to be used as a power die in his next phase. So it is possible to use some of those extra dispel channels to boost your offense. I'll probably get the one to modify miscasts along with one of the Loremaster options as well.
     
  9. Scalenex
    Slann

    Scalenex Keeper of the Indexes Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,827
    Likes Received:
    19,277
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The problem with taking a Channeling staff is you only get one arcane item per wizard. A channeling staff means no dispelling item, forbidden rod, or whatever arcane item(s) we get in the new book (if any).
     
  10. rothgar13
    Saurus

    rothgar13 New Member

    Messages:
    85
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Skink caddies exist, and they're cheap. I was able to fit 2 of them in my 2500 list fairly easily, so I'm going to go ahead and say the opportunity cost on this is minimal.
     
  11. Caneghem
    Carnasaur

    Caneghem New Member

    Messages:
    1,410
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yeah, I think two beast skink priest caddies are going to be the standard. Wyssan's is just too good to pass up, ask any Beastman generals, that spell seems to be their bread and butter.
     
  12. Qupakoco
    Skink Chief

    Qupakoco Keeper of the Dice Staff Member

    Messages:
    1,871
    Likes Received:
    1,166
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Also the Cube of Darkness is cheaper but nerfed slightly. Makes even more sense to bring dual scroll caddies to me.

    I'm loving these channeling shenanigans we can do now. Mix that with swapping out spells in high magic and changing your fate on the miscast table. Not bad, not bad at all.


    Not to derail, but I'm surprised no one has been complaining about the loss of The Cupped Hands of the Old Ones. It doesn't even exist anymore.
     
  13. rothgar13
    Saurus

    rothgar13 New Member

    Messages:
    85
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    That's part and parcel of 8e updates. If anything, I'd be surprised if anyone thought Lizards were going to get to keep the Cupped Hands.
     
  14. GCPD
    Bastiladon

    GCPD Active Member

    Messages:
    759
    Likes Received:
    38
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Personally I'm glad to see the back of cupped hands. Encourages me to play a bit more carefully with dice and maybe even use those bound spells instead of gong overboard and dodging the miscast.

    Speaking of which the channelling slann appears to be emerging as the default. What is the opinion on mitigating miscast through farthing rod or soul of stone?
     
  15. sirkently
    Cold One

    sirkently Member

    Messages:
    110
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Sort of figured cupped hands would be gone. I think soul of stone will be a staple of the slann setup. Earthing rod is nice, but the channeling staff will probably overrule that in most setups.
     
  16. Caneghem
    Carnasaur

    Caneghem New Member

    Messages:
    1,410
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hmm, channeling staff as the default may just be our addiction to extra power dice, maybe people will come to eventually live with having a less impressive offense?
     
  17. rothgar13
    Saurus

    rothgar13 New Member

    Messages:
    85
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Why would you, though? What's the benefit of skipping out on it? I don't see anything as impressive as ~1 dice per phase.
     
  18. Caneghem
    Carnasaur

    Caneghem New Member

    Messages:
    1,410
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    0
    At extremely high levels of tournament play, say the ETC, players try to keep risks to an absolute minimum. You can't afford to let your team down by blowing up your Slann and getting absolutely destroyed. Personally, I'll go with the Soul of Stone and the extra channels along with Loremaster High magic and then if there are points the "save a dispel dice" one.
     
  19. Caneghem
    Carnasaur

    Caneghem New Member

    Messages:
    1,410
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You know what's funny, is that the new standard arcane item is going to be the channeling staff instead of cupped hands... the item is exactly 30 points cheaper than the cupped hands, and the Slann's price went up the same amount.. coincidence?
     
  20. rothgar13
    Saurus

    rothgar13 New Member

    Messages:
    85
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The thing is, the way I understand how Disciplines work in this book, there's no reason you can't grab Soul of Stone, The Becalming Cogitation, and Harmonic Convergence. This is a "why not both?" scenario. The Earthing Rod is diminished in utility by the presence of Soul of Stone (cuts your chances of rolling either Dimensional Cascade or Magic Drain on the Miscast chart in half), and it's not like it's making your Magic phase any more potent. I'd say the risk is worth the payout.
     

Share This Page