8th Ed. Slann's Ward save

[Not-not-kenny]

Now, we all know that an armour save always fails on a 1, but that a 1+ does the same even against strength 4 or attacks that remove 1 from the save.

So what's up with the Slann's ward save if you use Unfathomable Presence (Magic resistance (3))? Does that mean that he gets a 1+ ward save agains magic attacks? I know the "always fails on a 1" probably applies here too, but that wouldn't make as much sense as on the armour save as there are no special rules (to my knowledge) that reduce ward saves other than completely negating them.

Is this addressed in the FAQs or have I completely misunderstood something?

 

[Arli]

You are correct, a 1 always fails. So, essentially, you can only ever get a 2+ ward save vs magic.

 

[Not-not-kenny]

So that means Unfathomable Presence could just as well have been magic resistance (2) and it wouldn't have made any difference at all. Funky.

 

[strewart]

Exactly. The reason is because in 7th ed when the LM book was written, magive resistance gave bonus dispel dice rather than a ward against magic missiles. Its just one of those little quirks lost between 7th and 8th.

 

[Syltaryn]

Look at the rule for magic resistance. A character with magic resistance passes it onto his unit so the +3 MR item on a Slann whilst only giving a 2+ for him gives the temple guard he's with a 4+ ward for spell damage. If they allowed ward saves for dwellers or pit of shades (and the other level 6 spells) I would pretty much auto include the +3 MR item but as they don't it limits its usefulness. Still it can helpful for most of the magic missile spells.

 

[Stonecutter]

The MR is useful against all spells (MM and direct damage) except the big #6s that don't allow saves. I have found the MR3 quite useful for my own slaan both at protecting the unit and really leveraging any existing ward saves on other characters. In bigger games, I field an old blood with a 5+ ward and the MR has saved his bacon innumerable times from "sniper" spells such as spirit leech and bubous.

 

[GySgtDave]

I just want to make sure I understand this correctly.

If a Slann with his 4+ ward save takes the Obsidian Amulet with a MR (5) would now has a 2+ ward save vs. damage dealt by spells.

If this Slann joins a unit does the unit befit from the staked 2+ MR ward save vs. damage dealt by spells or would the unit only get the protection from the Obsidian Amulet's MR (5)?

The BRB states ward saves stack with MR to improve the protection provided by MR and that MR is passed on to the unit the character joins.

 

[Qupakoco]

The 2nd way is correct. Slann will benefit from a 2++ vs magic while his unit gains 5++ vs magic.

The only way to transfer a ward save to an entire unit is through Magic Resistance or something like the Ironcurse Icon. In that particular case the effects of the ward would also stack with the MR (5) to give a 4++ against magical warmachines. Makes for a nasty little surprise against things like the Hellcannon, Dwarfs, and Skaven.

 

[hdctambien]

The only way to transfer a ward save to an entire unit is through Magic Resistance or something like the Ironcurse Icon. In that particular case the effects of the ward would also stack with the MR (5) to give a 4++ against magical warmachines. Makes for a nasty little surprise against things like the Hellcannon, Dwarfs, and Skaven.

MR doesn't work against Magical Attacks. Only against "damage caused by spells" So I don't think there is ever a case where the Ironcurse Icon and MR can combine.

MR really only defends against Magic Missiles and some Direct Damage spells.

 

[hdctambien]

MR doesn't work against Magical Attacks. Only against "damage caused by spells"

Also, Miscast Damage does count as "magical damage" (so the Banner of the World Dragon can save against it) but does not trigger MR (so Warlocks with MR do not get 2+ wards vs their barely-a-threat miscast damage ... and neither do a Slann's Temple Guard...)

 

[GySgtDave]

MR doesn't work against Magical Attacks. Only against "damage caused by spells"

Also, Miscast Damage does count as "magical damage" (so the Banner of the World Dragon can save against it) but does not trigger MR (so Warlocks with MR do not get 2+ wards vs their barely-a-threat miscast damage ... and neither do a Slann's Temple Guard...)

I understand MR only helps against damage caused by spells, such as magic missiles and direct damage spells.

The BRB clearly states a character with MR who joins a unit will pass the MR benefit onto the unit. The BRB also states MR can be improved by combining it with a single Ward Save. So the burning question is, a character, say a Slann, with a Ward Save AND MR pass the new total MR save onto a unit he joins as well?

 

[hdctambien]

MR doesn't work against Magical Attacks. Only against "damage caused by spells"

Also, Miscast Damage does count as "magical damage" (so the Banner of the World Dragon can save against it) but does not trigger MR (so Warlocks with MR do not get 2+ wards vs their barely-a-threat miscast damage ... and neither do a Slann's Temple Guard...)

I understand MR only helps against damage caused by spells, such as magic missiles and direct damage spells.

The BRB clearly states a character with MR who joins a unit will pass the MR benefit onto the unit. The BRB also states MR can be improved by combining it with a single Ward Save. So the burning question is, a character, say a Slann, with a Ward Save AND MR pass the new total MR save onto a unit he joins as well?

No. Only the MR passes on, and it will be combined with any ward save each individual model has.

So a Slann with MR(3) will have an (effective) 2+ ward vs spell damage, and hid Temple Guard will have a 4+ ward. If an Engine of the Gods is nearby, then that MR(3) will combine with the stegadons 6+ ward, giving the Temple Guard a 3+ ward vs spell damage.

If there was a Scar Vet with Armor of Destiny also in the unit, then he would have an (effective) 2+ MR ward.