Does it irk anyone else that all of our Special Characters are pretty much useless? Or, rather, just hideously overpriced? Kroak, MAzdamundi, and Kroq-Gar are all so expensive you can't use them in a smaller game than 2500 points. Tehenhauin is almost the same points as a Slann, and is only a Level 2 Wizard with Toughness 3. Chakax would still be too expensive if he was 100 points cheaper, and Gor-Rok would be about reasonably priced if he was. Tetto'eko can even help your enemy cast spells if you're unlucky enough, and he comes in at a weighty price tag as well. Tiktak'to would be awesome if he was about half the points he is, especially since he actually does some cool stuff on the table and has an amazing model. Oxyotl is probably the only one I would even consider taking, but again, he doesn't do a whole lot more than a regular Chameleon Skink, even though he costs about as much as a dozen normal Chameleon Skinks. Bah, that's just me ranting. What are your thoughts on the matter?
I wouldn't take any of our special characters to anything other than a historical re-fight or themed list, and even then I'd probably complain about having them sucking up points and being useless.
I played a 2000 pt list yesterday that included Tetto'eko. This is the second time that I have played him. both times, he has not performed at all. This time, I didn't even get a comet off. When I finally could, my units were in CC with all the enemy units. So, I passed and used the lore of life on my slann to buff my troops. I won the game, but only because I took one more banner than my opponent and I killed his vampire count. skink chief on a terradon with fencing blades is awesome! Terradon's stomp attack is amazing as well.
well when comparing to WoC special chars it makes me lought, its pathetic how unusless are lizardmen chars....
Yeah I usually find special characters to be overpriced for what they bring and not really fun to take, switching to 8th ed was inevitably going to throw off a fair bit of balance and some characters got better while others got a whole lot worse. Doesn't really bother me at all since I wouldn't take them and don't really even consider them part of the army list, even though they are fully legal these days.
I honestly never bring special characters anyways. The only one I ever consider is Chakax, and only if it’s a huge game. I.E. 4,000+. But I do agree with you that our special characters are practically useless. They would be amazing if they were cheaper but Games-Workshop gave it to us up the rear in special characters. Honestly though, there are some pretty spectacular builds you can make with a Scar – Veteran and some of the common magic items… Initiative 10 sword is 15 points. The Always Strikes First sword is 25 points. Scar Veterans swinging first into combat? WWWHHAAAMMM!
I think this thread is pretty much on-point about our named characters being overpriced. There is one big exception, though, Gor-Rok. The OP suggested he should be 100 points cheaper, and frankly, that's insane. He confers a -1 to hit modifier to enemies directing attacks vs him(possibly only in the first round of combat?), forces rerolls of successful wounds, AND is immune to killing blow. On top of that, with the way stubborn characters bestow steadfast to their unit, a reasonably sized Saurus unit can become a rock hard anvil unit against all but the most specific character-killer builds. In the last game I played, a unit of Gor-Rok and 20 Saurus with FC held off the combined assault of a hydra, a varghulf, a unit of dark riders, and a cold-one chariot for 3 combat phases, before I could support them with my stegadon(and rout the remnants of the assaulting forces.). The saurus didn't survive, but they held the line better than one could hope for...Gor-Rok was unscathed, and proceeded to kick more ass subsequently. He's the anchor that you place in front of a solo slann, and then never have to worry about overrun into your magic toad.
I agree that Gor-rok has improved in 8th edition... and your example would entice me to try him out if I wasn't too lazy to convert a model for him
One thing I would try out when my group gets to about 3k points is Kroq-Gar and filling the core requirement will a single huge unit of COC. then use the special allowance for chamos, Kroxs and stegs. Rares will naturally be filled with Salamanders. I might even have some points left over for some Scar Vets and/or Priests. I don't think it will be a completely broken army but it will provide the enemy with some interesting dilemmas.
Interesting...I have 16 Cold One Cavalry that would be cool to run like that. I will try out that list (maybe).
I'll tell you what special characters are good for, filling points. I've got two buddies that wanted to play a 5K game with me on my birthday. They both play dwarves and wanted to team up against me. Well I don't have 5K in Lizards so what do I do? I started filling up points from over priced characters. Worked like a charm...now I'll just see how they perform two weeks from now... At any point I agree that the only two characters that aren't overly bad are Gor Rok and Oxyotl.
Agree about the overpricing and limited usefulness. the only 1 I would consider is Oxyotl with the sniper rule. other than that, it is definitely better to take the points value in units or standard characters.
I hate the rules for Mazdamundi. It was better when he was just mentioned and you could try and make him yourself. I prefer to make my own characters. They tend to be cheaper and with better fluff in my opinion. Of all of them, I would use Tetto-Eko. He is pretty awesome. And maybe Kroq-Gar if I had a lot of points to use, even then, I would probably use my own character.