Discussion The Old Ones

[Caneghem]

Well since nobody has posted, I'll kick this off.

What are everyone's thoughts about the identity of the Old Ones? A mysterious technologically advanced race... are they one of the ones from 40K? I'd be interested to see what everyone has come across over the years poring through LM material.

 

[hellbreaker]

Found everything about them on Lexicanum.com just press 40k and search.

 

[strewart]

It wouldn't surprise me if they were the eldar, though I don't think GW would be silly enough to combine both any time soon. Some of the items are very 40k. Eg HE armour of the gods was power armour, the other item was a flamer, we have a las gun in the magic weapon that shoots lightning, etc. I wonder what will happen if the old ones ever return though, we may get swamped with powers but GW will still need to keep it balanced with the other races.

 

[Revered_Guardian]

They probably won't be returned any time soon.... but if they were maybe the other races could get there gods (all as special characters)... although i imagine old one special characters wouldn't fight very well, but would amp up the rest of the army

 

[hellbreaker]

*imagines khorne on the battlefield...*

No, that's just wrong.

 

[Revered_Guardian]

Ur probably right... and my friend plays eldar and he says that it mentions that the eldar were gifted some items from the old ones.... so how can they be them?

 

[strewart]

We may have a different idea of what the old ones are. Maybe the eldar are servants to the old ones, and Lizardmen are servants to the eldar, so to us we just see the eldar as old ones. Hell maybe even the eldar old ones have old ones of their own in a different universe not yet created by GW.

I think one of the fun things about Warhammer is trying to figure out how everything ties in, and GW has intentionally left a lot of holes. Example, our magic weapon that shoots 3 shots a turn like a bow, possibly a lasgun? In the Albion campaign a few years ago the HEs got items that were basically power armour (armour of the gods: 3+ save and 1+ strength), a flamer (fussil of conflagration I think, shoots a flame template) and a power fist, don't remember what it did. Also, the elves god of war, Khain, how much more does it need to sound like the blood god Khorne?

Khorne on the battlefield... Well, there wouldn't be a battlefield, it would be a bath for him. Even the primarchs are too powerful to have rules for, and they aren't the gods themselves.

 

[Deathfrisbee2000]

Whenever I hear Old Ones, I think Cthulhu.

Tentacles.

Ick.

--DF2K

 

[Quillum]

You know, I actually asked a GW Staff member the question you posed here. According to him, GW made an official statement denying any connection between 40k and Fantasy, with there being only a similarity with the Old Ones. But nothing more than that similarity, no connection.

 

[kroxigor01]

You know, I actually asked a GW Staff member the question you posed here. According to him, GW made an official statement denying any connection between 40k and Fantasy, with there being only a similarity with the Old Ones. But nothing more than that similarity, no connection.

Other then the four Chaos gods...

And the Elf and Eldar gods...

 

[asrodrig]

I've found on occasion that GW employees actually know less about the fluff of their own products than anyone who's actually thumbed through the BRB and an army book or two...

 

[strewart]

Eh, GW has claimed that several times but really the amount of similarities are remarkable.

Of course it COULD just be because the same type of people have written both so they sound similar, and GW always draws their ideas from other places.

 

[KroxigorsFTW]

We may have a different idea of what the old ones are. Maybe the eldar are servants to the old ones, and Lizardmen are servants to the eldar, so to us we just see the eldar as old ones. Hell maybe even the eldar old ones have old ones of their own in a different universe not yet created by GW.

I think one of the fun things about Warhammer is trying to figure out how everything ties in, and GW has intentionally left a lot of holes. Example, our magic weapon that shoots 3 shots a turn like a bow, possibly a lasgun? In the Albion campaign a few years ago the HEs got items that were basically power armour (armour of the gods: 3+ save and 1+ strength), a flamer (fussil of conflagration I think, shoots a flame template) and a power fist, don't remember what it did. Also, the elves god of war, Khain, how much more does it need to sound like the blood god Khorne?

Khorne on the battlefield... Well, there wouldn't be a battlefield, it would be a bath for him. Even the primarchs are too powerful to have rules for, and they aren't the gods themselves.

I don't meant to crush ideas, just to shed light on the Eldar... or something....

To paragrah 1: I strongly disagree with this theroy because i don't thknk the Eldar would mess with warp tech (the polar gates) and risk having Slaanesh harvest and torture them. I also don't think they have the tech to adapt life like the lizardmen, if they did, they wouldn't be talking casulalties on the battlefield. they;dalso probably leave behind wraithbone things not metal etc.

To paragraph 2: True, except lasguns have 1 shot, onl 2 if they get into the right range.

To Paragraph 3: Also very true. Except the Gods can't come out of the Warp. They can only send daemons.

There's a topic asking for fluff on the Old Ones on warseer. http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204084

It uses 40K stuff and fantasy.
The Old Ones in 40K (IIRC, this was talked about ages ago) but they were like a really powerful/smart race and they made a race that was pure, ultimate survivability (the orks) who eventually rebelled and killed them. There is eference to this in the Orks codex.

 

[strewart]

To paragraph 2: True, except lasguns have 1 shot, onl 2 if they get into the right range.

This is all I'm going to pick on, since the rest of my post was really just opinion and it is hard to find fact in the areas discussed in this thread.

Would you really expect a 40k weapon to have the same stats in the WHFB universe? I would think that 40k weapons are going to be faaar more damaging to models that have crude steel armour at best]/i] compared to power armour and technology that is 40,000 years advanced. For example, a bolt gun is a simple s4 weapon in 40k even lightly armoured (comparitavely) eldar still get a save against it. Yet fluff-wise, it fires explosive shells which I imagine would have no trouble blowing a chaos knight apart with one shot. Again, thinking from imagination and fluff since the rules cannot really apply across systems. Going the opposite way, the same light eldar armour would probably provide great protection and a very high save against a simple bow.

A lasgun shooting slightly more rapidly in WHFB than it does in 40k? I have no problem with that. A very much point-of-view discussion though.

 

[KroxigorsFTW]

To paragraph 2: True, except lasguns have 1 shot, only 2 if they get into the right range.

This is all I'm going to pick on, since the rest of my post was really just opinion and it is hard to find fact in the areas discussed in this thread.

Would you really expect a 40k weapon to have the same stats in the WHFB universe? I would think that 40k weapons are going to be faaar more damaging to models that have crude steel armour at best]/i] compared to power armour and technology that is 40,000 years advanced. For example, a bolt gun is a simple s4 weapon in 40k even lightly armoured (comparitavely) eldar still get a save against it. Yet fluff-wise, it fires explosive shells which I imagine would have no trouble blowing a chaos knight apart with one shot. Again, thinking from imagination and fluff since the rules cannot really apply across systems. Going the opposite way, the same light eldar armour would probably provide great protection and a very high save against a simple bow.

A lasgun shooting slightly more rapidly in WHFB than it does in 40k? I have no problem with that. A very much point-of-view discussion though.

HA! You admitted you're picking on me .

Now i know that they'd have a better S#strength value, and now that i think about it, when they're also contending with black power guns their rate of fire would be better...

Oh and very true, a VERY point of view discussion.

 

[angelwuff]

if I recall, waaay back in like.. 3rd? edition, well before I got into it. 40K and fantasy were a lot closer. Chaos could get actual chaos marines to use as champions and stuff like plasma rifles.

Something about the warhammer world was in the storm of chaos or something, and thus held in that perma-medieval setting. Just sort of used as entertainment by chaos off and on.

of course, that making most of the 'save the world!' plots mostly useless, GW smartly removed the major connections. Obviously some things will remain the same (Blood for the Blood god!) but otherwise, completely different universes.

 

[KroxigorsFTW]

if I recall, waaay back in like.. 3rd? edition, well before I got into it. 40K and fantasy were a lot closer. Chaos could get actual chaos marines to use as champions and stuff like plasma rifles.

Something about the warhammer world was in the storm of chaos or something, and thus held in that perma-medieval setting. Just sort of used as entertainment by chaos off and on.

of course, that making most of the 'save the world!' plots mostly useless, GW smartly removed the major connections. Obviously some things will remain the same (Blood for the Blood god!) but otherwise, completely different universes.

Yeah, very different like, mono-god daemon lists absolutly suck in 40K, unless they're Tzeentch.
Only other thing i'd like to say is: GW... smart?

 

[Barotok]

Only other thing i'd like to say is: GW... smart?

Yes from a business/profit standpoint (which is debatable).
No from just about every other standpoint (which is also debatable).