8th Ed. Treason of Tzeentch

[hdctambien]

Someone 'round here recently used Treason on Tzeetch against a Witch Elf unit that had the Cauldron of Blood. Since the Cauldron has a Ld of - (a dash) he said that counts as 0 so the unit has to use Ld 0.

Is that how the spell works?

Would a Stegadon become Ld 0 because the crew has a dash for their Ld? (Or our Cold One Cav or Bastiladon?)

If that isn't the correct way to play the spell, is there somewhere in the rules/FAQ I can point to that explains why a - should not be considered a 0 for the purposes of Treason?

The Spell reads:

The target unit must use the lowest Ld value in the unit (instead of the highest as would normally be the case) and cannot benefit from the Inspiring Presence or Hold Your Ground! special rules

It seems to me that the argument could be:

Models that are made up of different parts use their Highest Ld value, so the spell would use the Lowest Ld out of the all models in the unit that are each using their highest Ld value. So a Cav unit would use the rider, and the Cauldron would use one of the Witches (And the Stegadon would use the Monster's Ld rather than the Crew's).

Alternatively, I could see the argument (RAW): "List all the Ld values in the unit and sort them numerically. What is the lowest number in that list? Use that." And then referencing the BRB on Pg 4 "Some creatures have been given a value of 0 often shown as a dash" to convert the dashes into 0's.

It doesn't seem like that was the intention of the spell, and makes it pretty powerful against certain things for a 7 casting cost.

At the very least I think -'s should be ignored for purposes of the spell, but the BRB seems to say that a dash is a 0.... (sad face)

 

[VampTeddy]

Someone 'round here recently used Treason on Tzeetch against a Witch Elf unit that had the Cauldron of Blood. Since the Cauldron has a Ld of - (a dash) he said that counts as 0 so the unit has to use Ld 0.

Is that how the spell works?

Would a Stegadon become Ld 0 because the crew has a dash for their Ld? (Or our Cold One Cav or Bastiladon?)

If that isn't the correct way to play the spell, is there somewhere in the rules/FAQ I can point to that explains why a - should not be considered a 0 for the purposes of Treason?

The Spell reads:

The target unit must use the lowest Ld value in the unit (instead of the highest as would normally be the case) and cannot benefit from the Inspiring Presence or Hold Your Ground! special rules

It seems to me that the argument could be:

Models that are made up of different parts use their Highest Ld value, so the spell would use the Lowest Ld out of the all models in the unit that are each using their highest Ld value. So a Cav unit would use the rider, and the Cauldron would use one of the Witches (And the Stegadon would use the Monster's Ld rather than the Crew's).

Alternatively, I could see the argument (RAW): "List all the Ld values in the unit and sort them numerically. What is the lowest number in that list? Use that." And then referencing the BRB on Pg 4 "Some creatures have been given a value of 0 often shown as a dash" to convert the dashes into 0's.

It doesn't seem like that was the intention of the spell, and makes it pretty powerful against certain things for a 7 casting cost.

At the very least I think -'s should be ignored for purposes of the spell, but the BRB seems to say that a dash is a 0.... (sad face)

The howdah rules are very quick to state that the Skinks and Steg is a single model - That means the lowest leadership of the unit is 6, since there's only one model.

Or at least, that is how i would present it.

 

[Qupakoco]

Yeah, Teddy is right. Our book specifically says that you use the Leadership of the monster.

The Cauldron Ld 0 and Treason of Tzeentch thing sounds like it was done wrong, but I don't own either book so I'm not sure. But the Cauldron isn't alive, so it's Leadership should be dependent on the "crew" using it. What does the DE book say for rules about the Cauldron?

EDIT: Nvm. Google first, ask questions later.