Hello! I'm trying to design an "all comers" list, that is well suited to play a variety of different armies (and playing styles). The points limit is 2000. This is my first list for the 8th edition and I was hoping to get some feedback. Please let me know what you think, and any changes you would suggest. The list is as follows... Mage-Lord Tlama'tini (Lore of Life) Battle Standard Bearer Standard of Discipline The Focused Rumination Focus of Mystery The Becalming Cogitation Cupped Hands of the Old Ones 24 x Saurus Warriors (Musician, Spears) 10 x Skink Skirmishers (blowpipes) 10 x Skink Skirmishers (blowpipes) 10 x Skink Skirmishers (blowpipes) 16 x Temple Guard (Full Command) 5 x Chameleon Skinks 5 x Chameleon Skinks Stegadon Stegadon Salamander Hunting Pack (extra handler) Salamander Hunting Pack TOTAL 2000 POINTS I was tinkering with slightly different versions of this list where the one of the Stegadons and a Skink Skirmisher unit (or two) are replaced with another Saurus unit (hand weapon + shield), a couple of extra chameleons in each of their units and maybe some terradons. What do you guys/gals think? I settled on this list because it provides 3 nearly unbreakable units (assuming the Stegs are within 12 inches of the Slann), a good sized Saurus unit, and lots of shooting and harassing via the skinks, salamanders and chameleons. A dispel scroll would be great, but I don't want to invest in a Skink priest, and I don't really want to part with the Cupped Hands. Is it "safe" entering a battle without a dispel scroll? Even with the Throne of Vines spell, I wanted to protect my Slann and Temple guard further as they are the most vital element of my army. Any thoughts on this and the list in general? All thoughts and comments are appreciated!
So far the feedback I have received was to drop the two regular stegadons and replace them with an Ancient Steg (EOTG OR Chief + Warspear) and increase the size of the Temple Guard unit. What does everyone think? Also what are your thoughts on Saurus: HW + Shield versus Spears?
In my opinion, hand weapon/shield Saurus >>>> spear Saurus. Their extra survivability is absolutely fantastic. Also, on the Stegadon front, lots of people prefer the Ancient, but I actually prefer the regular Stegadon, just because it is cheaper, and somehow I can manage to wound things with it.
I reallt like spears but i use HW and shield sometimes in combat like when charged by someone and i need to survive
I would agree with the people saying that you need more TG. At least 20 or you will get withered down too fast (I would remove the cupped hands (witch I think is overkill) and buy increase the regiment). Other than that it looks like a lot of fun even though it is probably not the perfect tournament ultimate cheese, list. Too make the list overall better you should probably make sure to get another block of saurus but I think your list sounds like great fun.
My concern is that your army doesn't have a lot of staying power. Generally speaking you don't want to tie your TG into combat unless it's a soft units. That only leaves your single saurus. If I were you I'd do as you suggested and drop a Steg and a Salamander and go for that extra Saurus Warrior unit. Saurus are our bread and butter.
Thanks for all the replies. Using the advice offered, here is my updated list... Mage-Lord Tlama'tini (Lore of Life) Battle Standard Bearer Standard of Discipline The Focused Rumination Focus of Mystery The Becalming Cogitation 24 x Saurus Warriors (Musician, Spears) 20 x Saurus Warriors (Musician, HW + shield) 10 x Skink Skirmishers (blowpipes) 10 x Skink Skirmishers (blowpipes) 21 x Temple Guard (Full Command) 5 x Chameleon Skinks 5 x Chameleon Skinks Ancient Stegadon Salamander Hunting Pack (extra handler) Salamander Hunting Pack TOTAL 1996 POINTS Basically, the changes are... I dropped.... 2 regular stegadons cupped hands of the old ones 10 skink skirmishers I added... a unit of 20 saurus warriors (HW + Shield) 1 ancient stegadon 5 more temple guard What does everyone think? How does this compare with my original list? Any more suggestions? (I will miss my precious cupped hands!)
That army will probably be able to take down most opponents. It will force many armies to come to you with your skinks magic and salamanders and when they reach you you have enough saurus and TG to grind them down with a Steg standing ready to support. After this I would say things comes down to wether you want a couple of extra chameleons or teradons or bigger blocks of saurus. This however is personal and I think its hard to tweak your list much more than you have done.
A few tips I might suggest. But only those of my own opinion so don't count them as gospel or anything Firstly, if you play a random senario then you may get I believe number 4 from memory of the chart. The one I refer to requires fortitude for victory instead of points. It is worked out one point of fortitude for each banner you have +1 for the general. The object of the game is to destroy half the opponents fortitude before they do of you. Looking at you list I count your general, the army battle standard, and the banner in the temple guard as your only fortitude amounting to a total of 3. That means the enemy only realistically need to kill your slann to have won the game outright. I only mentioned this as I watched a tournament match where this senario came up with a Chaos player who have only 1 point of fortitude (his general) On the first turn, his opponent shot a cannonball straight at him, killing him outright and winning the game before the player even had a chance to move any of his models! I now make a conscious point of having at least 5 or so fortitude. So I'd say spend an extra 24pts to give both units of saurus banners. Secondly, the disciplines for your slann can be used to much greater advantage. Personally with magic level 4 there's a high chance when I choose a lore, I get a particular spell I'm aiming for. So instead of those disciplines I would advise taking the Higher state of consciousness and unfathomable presence. Only two saves you 50pts already and the conbination mean only magical attacks can hurt your slann, and those have the added magic resistence of (3) so commonly if you keep your slann moving, your enemy must cast a magic missile for instance, you have your normal 5+ ward save upgraded to 2+ with the magic resitance. I have used this to amazing effect before as you slann with 5 wounds becomes nearly indestructable. (Also on note, if your playing a Orc & goblins player, a little trick is to send your slann close to any night goblins to set off the 8" limit for fanatics, suddenly when the player wasn't realising it, he has fanatics running round the field he must dodge, and none can hurt your slann!) With the army banner on the slann mage, it is good for this tactic as you have 2 fortitude points safely secured, but when not playing that senario I usually give it to my saurus scar vet, with a great weapon (as the magic weapons aren't amazing) with the army battle standard and then the totem of Prophecy makes your unit a little more deadly with the fear special rule. Other than that the list looks good, personally I'd go with the lore of death instead of life, or if you know your facing something like an empire/dwarven player metal (thats fun against steam tanks!) I finally managed to use the purple sun of xerus to full effect against a brilliant orc and goblin player who decided to take 2 units of 100 night goblins (making full use of the horde rule there ) from corner to corner I caused 49 initiative tests and he lost 19 of the green things! Well worth it, also as you have fewer units than your enemy (probably anyway) it's even more important you win in the combats so I'd promote the hex's within the law to weaken your opponents. Oh now I remember, to save a few points, I would also change the 2 5man chameleons into 1 8man and stalker, then if you can make full use of the scout rule. As they can be placed in open view now just 12" away from the enemy, you can play havoc! Most players use a battle line as far forward as possible, especially on mission like meeting engagement, so just see if there is a gap big enough somewhere behind his lines to put them. Then you have a unit that can shoot/charge any artillary pieces (yes they win on the charge usually) or just shoot at units up close with the 2x multiple shots and better BS skill (giants are perfect targets for use of poison as they have no armour!, toughness advantage taken) which will also mean if they want to march they must pass leadership tests constently. Whilst their held upi, you can outmanouvre them! Right I think thats all my thoughts for the moment
I think you've got a stronger list now. With that second SW unit there you'll have a much better chance at sticking out the fights. And don't be too concerned about taking Cupped hands out. If you take Lore of Life then you've got throne of vines to protect you against the miscast table. IMHO I wouldn't change your Slann's diciplines as being in such a large block of TG (I prefer 20 as well) your Slann is well protected. Just keep that unit out of fights you can't win on the first turn and you'll be alright. Although I do like BDRC's idea about the Slann bringing out the finatics! That's pretty clever!
IMO chameleons work perfectly for taking out the fanatics as well. move them up 8" away in your first turn and they will hurt him way more than they hurt you. I would stay as you are on the diciplines. You dont realy need the extra protection and with the combo that you have you are the most powerfull (save teclis) caster in the game who will crush any army (save HE with teclis (god I hate him)) in the magic phase.
Unfathomable presence is 5 more points then Obsidian Lodestone and you get the same thing. So 5 more pts saved
THANKS FOR ALL THE GREAT ADVICE EVERYONE! The only two things I worry about with my "new" list are.... 1. That I had to take out 10 skink skirmishers. I still have 2 x 10 skink skirmishers as well as 2 x 5 chameleon skinks. Is that enough? I kind of like having a bunch of skinks running around since they come in handy in so many situations. 2. Perhaps a lack of mobility. The core of my army is slow (2 units of saurus and one unit of temple guard). I'd be a bit worried about a highly mobile army running circles around me. I still have some quick things in the army so I'm curious as to how it will play out. Is this justified or do you feel that the army has sufficient ways of dealing with more nimble opponents (wood elves, etc)? @BDRC.... interesting point on the Blood and Glory pitched battle. I never even thought of that. I'll have to try to find a way to squeak in a few standard bears to raise my fortitude although I'm not sure where to steal the points from. At the moment I have a fortitude of four (general = 2, temple guard standard = 1, Slann BSB = 1). Perhaps... dropping a single temple guard and the extra salamander handler + the 4 points I still have left would give me 25 points. What does everyone think?
That's about the right number I think. I will occasionally run 3 units but not very often. I'd probably run more Chameleons if I had the models haha. Try to protect your TG/Slann as best you can. True they can hold their own in most fights but they aren't invincible. Using the castling tactic isn't a bad way to go either. Set up your army in one corner of the board and blast him with magic and shooting and get some fast movers on his/her flanks.
I'm not sure how you got my name under that quote when I'm not the one who said it. BUT in any case I agree, Obsidian Lodestone is cheaper. The only time I'd advise against it is if you want to use a differant talisman or you don't have the points to spend on it because of other items you want to buy but still feel you want the MR3.
What does everyone think about me dropping one temple guard and the extra handler from the salamander pack in order to buy a standard bearer for each of my saurus warrior units? That would give me a fortitude of six for the blood and glory pitched battle if I were to roll to play it. Or am I better off to hope that my temple guard and Slann remain intact should I roll the 1 in 6 chance of getting the Blood and Glory pitched battle?
Thanks to everyone for all your great advice! Here is the final version of my list... Mage-Lord Tlama'tini (Lore of Life) Battle Standard Bearer Standard of Discipline The Focused Rumination Focus of Mystery The Becalming Cogitation 24 x Saurus Warriors (Musician + Standard Bearer, Spears) 20 x Saurus Warriors (Musician + Standard Bearer, HW + shield) 10 x Skink Skirmishers (blowpipes) 10 x Skink Skirmishers (blowpipes) 20 x Temple Guard (Full Command) 5 x Chameleon Skinks 5 x Chameleon Skinks Ancient Stegadon Salamander Hunting Pack Salamander Hunting Pack TOTAL 1999 POINTS Thanks again for all the help, if you can think of any other changes that should be made let me know. It looks pretty solid!! NOW IT IS TIME TO DO SOME PAINTING!