Hi guys, I've recently run into some problems against a new foe. A newcomer to our gaming group has a skaven army that's causing me some real problems. First, I consider myself a competent lizzie player, and I've had a lot of success with variations of the following list. This list isn't to a specific points value, but is the core of my army. Second, I really don't like lists put together specifically to beat a specific race/type of army, and as it stands this list has performed well against a lot of opponents. My usual tactics are to rush the opponents toughest units, debuff them/buff myself, ruin said units, then clean up the rest. Against armies with very little pew pew I stay back and Slann/blowpipe them. Slann, lore of shadows Cupped hands Rumination, cogitation, mystery BSB Scar vet with some shiny stuff 20 TG (all of the above in the same unit) Skink priest with EoTG (I know they get some critisism but this guy holds my dispel scroll and easily earns his worth with my playstyle in most battles) 30 Saurus with spears 4 units of SS 2 sallies 2 small camo skink units The main problem I'm having against the skaven comes in the shooting phase, between the warp cannons and jezzails I often find myself with a dead Slann and EoTG long before my skinks can do anything about them. If I get the first turn things usually go a little better, but I hate having to rely on getting the first turn, I hate the ethos of armies in general that rely on such a large element of luck. So, appreciate you reading, wondering if you guys have come up against (and dealt with) the problems I'm having, Cheers
I hate Skaven - my least favourite army to play against just because of all the ridiculous rules they have. A good run of luck from a Skaven general can completely ruin your army in two turns. My usual Skaven opponent tends to run with Abom, warp cannon, doom rocket engineer, several gutter runner units, Grey Seer, two massive Slave units, Massive giant rat unit, Plague Monks with priest, Storm vermin bunker with most characters hiding in it. He always hides the bunker behind the tarpit slave units and blocks any attempt at getting past. I find that Chameleons and Terradons work best at taking out the long range stuff and then can sit at the side of the bunker unit firing into them. Most off the time my Sallies are dead before they get near the bunker (due to gutter runners or magic). Saurus get held up by slaves/monks. Yep, they're a horrible army in the hands of a good general Not much else I can offer I'm afraid...
You could always give your slann the 2+ ward vs shooting. He also should get a look out sir. The trouble with the EoTG is that you just need to put it away from the cannons or hide it behind something for a bit.
yeah, not sure how your slann is ending up cactus. He should be able to look out sir through most things. The EotG, though... well, it's a monster in 8th edition, so not much you can do about cannons if you don't get first turn. For the jezzails, my only thought is to screen with your skirmishers marching up in front of the steg. Long range, hard cover, that's 7s to hit. Sorry, I'm not sure I've got anything to offer. I am, however, interested to hear from others, too.
Yeah, the Jezzails shouldnt be able to snipe your Slann out of the unit, as it hits per shooting, that means it's popping all 20 TG before it can allocate hits to your Slann. The Lightning cannon can snipe your Slann out, i'd give him the 2+ ward save, as you can't get Look out Sir from templates (unless otherwise stated that I didn't see in my 2-second check of the codex)
Thought I'd give you an update, I know it's not strictly lizardmen based but hey. Had the day off today so had a rematch with the skaven. 4000pts, but decided to give my tomb kings a go instead. Took 2 huge units of skeletons with tombkings/princes/necrotects supported by necropolis knights, horsemen, chariots and necrosphinxs. Didn't go well, he brought 2 hell pit abominations. I mention the latter because for 235pts these things are horrific, same points as a vanilla steg, and so much better IMO. So, the HPO's ruined my flanks, and it went downhill from there. 2nd battle was far more successful. 2250pts, I got my khorne daemons out. Bloodthirster, khorne hounds and 2 very large blood letter units. This one was a massacre, the bloodthirster chewed through the hell pit abomination, the blood letters ruined everything else. Didn't try my lizzies today, but at least I sort of wiped the smile of my opponents face.
... Look out sir, when inside a unit, is ONLY for templates, as that's the only way he can be hit (likewise unit champions). Page 93.
Going back to the original list and the vermin problem, here are a few tips that I found useful. 1) screen the TG with SS to provide the -2 to hit hard cover, that will take care of jezzails. Also, the miasma can be used to nerf jezzails' ballistic skill or as a ploy to draw dice so you can get off an offensive spell. 2) put the TG and saurus in 2 ranks. The unit will be wide and not very deep but it will reduce the number of models lost to WLC. In combat, the TG don't really care and the saurus can survive against anything but a large block of rat ogres and still stay steadfast long enough to reform and get their ranks back. 3) you can try both pit of shades and the pendulum to snipe the WLC. Only problem with latter is that you are likely to lose a TG since the spell template line will pass through one. 4) steed of shadows on the scar vet can be used to send him where he can go war machine hunting. 5) EoTG is essentially dead if the WLC don't get dropped early on so try to hide behind a building if one is available and keep it out of LOS until the WLC are wiped out. At T2, even the weakest WLC hit can easily kill the priest since it allows no armour save and does d6 wounds. 6) chameleons - priority target for them are WLC. It is even worth charging in to tie up the WLC. With some shadow hexes, even skinks can win combat against 3 x T3 opponents. 7) Save the scroll for dreaded 13th, nothing else unless the TG are in combat. That should be enough to at least bring the battles to an equal footing. The only other change I would consider is going to life or light since they offer more more reliable ranged attacks and some amazing buffs.