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8th Ed. Weaknesses in the lizardmen army

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Saurus

nathanbomb6

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a newish player here who has actually not had a game at all but got a few questions.
what are the weaknesses in the lizardmen army?
what armies are easy to beat?
what armies are not easy to beat?
and what types of units are lizardmen weak against (generally)? *Example* "war machines" etc.

I know it depends on what army you bring up but think of the basics really.
so advice tips welcome! thanks!
 
The great thing about are army is we don't really have any crippling weaknesses. Here's a few I guess

-We're not fast - we're not slow, mind you, but we're not fast.
-Monsters are vulnerable to cannonfire.
-Coordinating between slower saurus and faster skinks can be a challenge.
-Somewhat expensive troops mean we're often outnumbered

I'm sure there are more things but again, not really huge problems. We're a pretty well rounded force that can take on most things.

My biggest problems come from killing Murderous Horrible Vampires of Death, but those things are difficult to take on for anyone.
 
Moniker said:
The great thing about are army is we don't really have any crippling weaknesses. Here's a few I guess

-We're not fast - we're not slow, mind you, but we're not fast.
-Monsters are vulnerable to cannonfire.
-Coordinating between slower saurus and faster skinks can be a challenge.
-Somewhat expensive troops mean we're often outnumbered

I'm sure there are more things but again, not really huge problems. We're a pretty well rounded force that can take on most things.

My biggest problems come from killing Murderous Horrible Vampires of Death, but those things are difficult to take on for anyone.
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all good points there, I'll take them into account
 
Low initiave and WS (saurus)
low st & to (skinks)

lack of true warmachines and mostly short range shooting.

Basicly we have an army of specialist, that have both great advantages and weekness.
 
^^ I second that ^^

Low initiative is a real pain in the butt sometimes. But then we are also S4, T4, and have 2 attacks to make up for it. And the whole army is Cold Blooded. Playing with a non-CB army makes you really miss that perk.

We also lack any good named characters at the moment, besides some of the skinks. I'm sure our new book will fix that though. :smug:
 
We also have a low strength.

"But we're S4" I hear you cry! That's true but the highest we can get is 6 (Kroxigor) who are seldom fielded in units and skrox are just awful. so S5 from the temple guard is the standard highest. Against any 1+ save troops (empire kinghts) or even 2+ saves we struggle, especially with WS3 or 4. If you're planning on actually killing stuff in CC , I''d recommend Lore of Light (so you hit) or Lore of Shadow (so you kill)...
 
I have also found that it is difficult to get high strength attacks in our army. Theres quite a few ways to get s5/s6 attacks (templeguard, krox, stegadons etc) but for s7 and higher you are just looking at equipping characters (scar vets, oldbloods and carnosaurs). I like some s7 or higher attacks in my army for monsters or highly armoured foes.
 
a lot of armies need characters to get S7 attacks. We have poisoned attacks that can help wound high Toughness creatures. S7 is better but poison isn't bad.

To add some minor things to the weakness list,

We don't have any long range shooting apart from the Stegadon's Great Bow (which isn't very good). This is made up for by our short range shooting.

Another weakness is a lack of options for our low level wizards. We can't take low level wizards to get our favorite signature spells (unless your favorite signature spell is Iceshard Blizzard).

It's not an army weakness per se but it irks me that the special character names are so stupid.
 
Scalenex said:
It's not an army weakness per se but it irks me that the special character names are so stupid.
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Thank you! I mean, seriously, Tiktaq'to?? What's next, Smar'ties? Gor-rok and Kroq-gar are not shining examples either. But I love Tehenhauin, though.
 
I'd say low STR is a weakness. TG can't even take GW like most guard. Our saurus have higher str than most core troops, but our guard have lower or equal str than most special rank and file. Our high str is only in our beasts. It's not easy getting 6+ attacks. We can get 9 in a typical unit. Where as things like ogres get 20+, DE get 16 plus executioners, Demons get bloodletters core. They have the str of our TG and 30% less cost as a core unit. Not really comparable in the str department. There are other armies that have a hard time getting 6+ str as well, but that doesn't mean str isn't our weakness. Probably more often than not in those armies STR is one of theirs as well. But they're probably human races and have s10 cannons to make make up for it. Killing things like a Steam Tank, War Hydra, or two is not an easy task for an all comers type list. It'll take a large amount of space and a couple units of skinks. We can't just aim a cannon or a bolt thrower or two and make it go away. Even our great bow has less str than a bolt thrower. It's completely understandable given our toughness, poison, and armor saves, but it is defiantly a weakness.

Doesn't look like anyone mentioned it, but I think cavalry is one of our weaknesses. If you like cavalry, look somewhere else. You wont be getting your fill with Lizards. Sub par at best.

Skrox aren't aweful without lore of light. But you can't treat them as a high str unit and go up against a horde with a lord and bsb in it or something even remotely worrisome. I like to treat them as a unit of skinks still and put them up against other light infantry units or on a flank vs units without ranks. They hardly ever fail for me out on a flank. And never fail to pulverize light infantry units around the same point value.

I think Oxyotl and tetto'eko are actually pretty awesome sounding names btw. XP
 
I certainly agree with alot of what ive read here on the weakness part. Its all been covered mostly

Low Initiative
Low strength(in certain situations)
Crappy Calvary
No variety in our low level magic


However i also really dont think those weaknesses factor in to much in games i mean sure a spell that makes you take a INT test will most likely rip us apart, and multiple hydras or Stanks are tough to deal with, with only poison but honestly i think Lizzies benefit from being solid in just about everything.

I mean if your gonna face an armored up opponent like Bretts or WoC bring a Big Daddy Slann with Lore of Metal and maybe a steg for some flank charges. Need that INT to beat quicker armies like elves bring a Slann with Lore of Light. Sarus can take ALOT of punishment my buddy mainly plays Bretts ive been multi chared before by 2 Knight buses and still my Saurus proved to tough to take down i also like to stick a Scar-vet with a great weapon in my units for that awesome high strength boost to rip up armor!

The Lizzies strengths by far out number the weaknesses
 
Warmachines; oh what I would do for a real war machine! :walkingdead:
 
Caprasauridae said:
Scalenex said:
It's not an army weakness per se but it irks me that the special character names are so stupid.
Click to expand...
Thank you! I mean, seriously, Tiktaq'to?? What's next, Smar'ties? Gor-rok and Kroq-gar are not shining examples either. But I love Tehenhauin, though.
Click to expand...

Bahaha! I love that part. My username came from the 5th edition book (cup-a-coco), harhar. And Tehenhauin used to be Tenehuini! (teenee-weenee) Oh, good times. If you read through the some of the older fluff, the skinks usually have funny names like that.

I also just saw the post about Transformer names for the mounts. That's hilarious.
 
I have to agree with cuppa-coaco! In what other army could a lowly tinkerer rise to be a general? ;)


As for weakness, I would agree that our Str and WS and low I mean that while we can tough it out for a while, we can't win without our support troops getting where they need to be and doing what they're being paid to do. My battles often come down to salamander being successful vs. being shot up in the early turns, Steg making a supporting flank charge vs. eating a cannon ball, terradons and chameleons taking out the enemy war machines vs. not being able to get where I need them because of terrain, deployment, enemy shooting, magic going really well or being dispelled and miscast. If half my supporting units work well, I can usually win or draw. If more than half are stopped, I either draw or lose. The only supporting units that are truly reliable and can be brought in large enough numbers to be redundant and reliable, are skink skirmishers. Unfortunately, this makes the lizards a little predictable.

When I was mainly playing Skaven and Empire I would always breath a sigh of relief if I had a Lizard opponent in a tourney, because I knew exactly what to expect and exactly how to beat it.

On the other hand, I think an army of dinosaurs looks dead cool all painted up, and when things work, they work brilliantly. Saurus hit back pretty hard. I would suggest the razor standard against highly armored foes.
 
Warmachines: We have none, several of the better armies (Empire, Dwarves, TK with their S10 casket of death shenanigans) do. Stegs and Carnosaurs get cannoned off the board Turn 2, EOTG does as well. It's depressing, and we're not alone. Camo Skinks, 'Iceshard Blizzard' and 'Pha's Protection' can help to some extent in shutting down cannons, but its still an issue.

Combat: Put simply, if you don't buff Saurus and Temple Guard, they will fail pretty hard. Our awful Initiative values mean we lose a lot over the course of a combat, even though we hit pretty hard back. 'Speed of Light' gets us accuracy and defense (WS10 forces most things to hit on a 5+). 'Mindrazor' is great by itself, but with 'Speed of Light' it can swing combats completely.

Shooting: Salamanders and blowpipes...that's basically it. Mind you, Salamanders are kinda broken, but we still don't have warmachines to help out in the shooting phase, or any real shooty unit.

Price: Lizardmen armies aren't terribly overpriced, but we're up there. We don't even hit especially hard for our unit price. Either statlines will have to go up, or price will need to come down.

Eye-wateringly bad SC: This a general problem in Fantasy, but with Lizardmen it is especially painful. Not one of our SC's is even vaguely worth fielding. For every cool unique item or ability they have, there is a drawback or a stupidly inflated point cost to go with it. Chakax and Gor-Rok come closest to being viable, and they are both ~100pts too expensive.
 
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