8th Ed. When to use the Scar-Vet/Oldblood "Cowboys"?

[rothgar13]

Hey all,

Just wanted to ask a question regarding a concept I'm struggling with - I think that the Saurus Scar-Veteran and Oldblood "Cowboy" builds offer fantastic value, but I'm at a bit of a loss as to which lists really get the most use out of them. So far, I'm thinking a list with a big block of Cold One Cavalry would probably be my best bet (have them man the frontlines, support them from afar), but I'm curious to hear any alternatives for their use. Do you run them solo, perhaps? Has anyone given a Carnosaur any love yet? What are your general thoughts on this unit? Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[Drmooreflava]

The most common use I've seen is to use them like an unkillable DE dreadlord.

Give the "cowboy" a 1+ rerollable armor save and the CC. Hold up a unit of phoenix/black guard all match. Coldblooded with the stubborn is somewhat reliable (if he isn't winning combat).

I think the reason the "cowboy" works, is because there are so many other targets for cannons to shoot at that he can sneak past the heavy artillery and shrug off most missle fire with T5 and 1+ rerolled.

And in the past, he wasn't afraid of magic due to slaan dominance. And since the cube of darkness and a dispel scroll were/are also readily available.

 

[skillfull_dan]

I agree with everything mooreflava said.

I take at least one cowboy in any list I make, and they can be used for anything which is exactly why they are so popular. They are hard to kill, can hunt monsters with S7 great weapons, hunt warmachines with ease, serve as a redirector that can hold up blocks for multiple turns, assassinate mages, or help you blocks in the grind.

They are a swiss army knife of ways to kill things.

I believe they were one of the best values in our old book. Since they are even cheaper now, I think they are the very best value we have.

 

[Wiggus]

Im quite liking steg helm and pirahna blade at the moment good for kill big monsters maybe even adding a halberd seeing the rules for pirahna blade says the wielder not attacks with this weapon

 

[Caneghem]

Im quite liking steg helm and pirahna blade at the moment good for kill big monsters maybe even adding a halberd seeing the rules for pirahna blade says the wielder not attacks with this weapon

If you have a magical weapon, you must always use it in combat.

 

[thegraymist]

What are the normal builds for the cowboys?

Cold One, Dawnstone, Great Weapon? I love the idea of the cowboy and it would be great to know the most efficient build for a scar vet

 

[Lizardmatt]

I'm thinking Old Blood, Cold One, Armor of Destiny, Dawn Stone, Great Weapon. 251 points.
1+ re-rollable, 4+ ward.
@2400 points, that leaves my slaan with Convergence and +1 to channel.

I'll have to put the BSB on a scar vet, and the banner of discipline in the temple guard, but being able to squeeze the level 4 with the ultimate badass is pretty awesome.

Seriously, that old blood can go toe to toe with just about anything.
I'd go high magic on the slaan, (only 4 spells) and cycle out 1 for the default of life (if needed), to give the temple guard regen (5+) and heal the old blood should he take a wound.

Mathhammer says this old blood can tank and grind a block of 6 Skull Crushers. Really, he goes toe to toe with just about anyone.

-Matt

 

[Pinktaco]

You guys make it sound as if a scar vet can hold anything and survive for some time. How about 10-15 inner circle empire knights?

 

[rothgar13]

If he manages to take the charge from them, he should swat their attacks away rather effortlessly. S4 isn't doing diddly to a T5 model with a 1+ save.

Has anyone experimented with the Piranha Blade yet? I feel that this is the first weapon I would reach for on a cowboy build.

 

[Knight Errant]

Last book I used to run Oldblood, cold one, dawnstone, crown, 5++ armor, warrior bane for a cool 275pts. That same build now is 5 points cheaper. 1+/5++, T5, stubborn, pretty resilient and hits hard. Just wondering if there is a better kit out there. Was also thinking of going with 6++ armor and +1 to hit sword. That's a lot of attacks hitting with PF.

Or is a standard Great weapon more effective?

 

[skillfull_dan]

Has anyone experimented with the Piranha Blade yet? I feel that this is the first weapon I would reach for on a cowboy build.

I am running it on my old blood. Works well on him because he still has the point allowance for a charmed shield and talisman of protection.

I worry on a scarvet it woulld turn him into a glass cannon. Havent tried it on scarvet yet.

 

[Caneghem]

I'm thinking Old Blood, Cold One, Armor of Destiny, Dawn Stone, Great Weapon. 251 points.
1+ re-rollable, 4+ ward.
@2400 points, that leaves my slaan with Convergence and +1 to channel.

I'll have to put the BSB on a scar vet, and the banner of discipline in the temple guard, but being able to squeeze the level 4 with the ultimate badass is pretty awesome.

Seriously, that old blood can go toe to toe with just about anything.
I'd go high magic on the slaan, (only 4 spells) and cycle out 1 for the default of life (if needed), to give the temple guard regen (5+) and heal the old blood should he take a wound.

Mathhammer says this old blood can tank and grind a block of 6 Skull Crushers. Really, he goes toe to toe with just about anyone.

-Matt

That's also my thinking on the Oldblood, just make him really hard to kill and great weapon him up. Yeah, he should be dead hard to kill.

 

[Pinktaco]

If he manages to take the charge from them, he should swat their attacks away rather effortlessly. S4 isn't doing diddly to a T5 model with a 1+ save.

.

So how about combat resolution?

 

[rothgar13]

Static CR for a block of 10-15 Knights is about +3, and they're winning the ties. Surely you can get 2-3 kills out of a 5-attack (+Predatory Fighter) Oldblood with a Great Weapon, yes?

 

[skillfull_dan]

Mathhammer says yes to 2-3 kills per round

5 attacks
5.8333 attacks after PF
3.888 hits
3.24 wounds
2.7 after parry save

Plus a little extra juice from his 2 attack cold one means he will average 3 wounds per round against most things. If you are playing 2500+ points I would add the Other Tricksters Shard to give him some killing power against regen and other lords.

S4 knights would be doing this in return

6 attacks
3 hits
1 wound
.16666 after armor save
.0277 after dawnstone
.0139 after ward save

If combat res didnt exist, it would take 1296 S4 WS5 attacks to kill him

It would take 216 S5 WS5 attacks to kill him average

However if you throw him against a block of swordsman with a bsb, a parry save, 3 additional ranks, and a unit banner, he is almost certain to lose to static res.

While this guy can kill anything short of a daemon prince, most opponents have something that can take him out of the game like cannonballs, ballista, banishment, terrorgheists, ethereal units, and tarpits. His lack of a decent monster mount means he cant rack up free res through stomps like chuck norris or chaos lords.

 

[Pinktaco]

How far behind is the scar vet compared to those numbers?

 

[Knight Errant]

Looking at two different OB cowboy builds:

- killy:

OB, cold one, dawnstone, steg helm, crown, GW: 1+ AS rerollable, S5 impact hits and S7 attacks, T6 stubborn

- more survivable?

OB, cold one, dawnstone, armor of fortune, crown, warrior bane: 1+ AS rerollable, 5++, S5 magical attacks, stubborn

Both are stubborn and both are going to be effective melee, but trying to figure out if I focus on damage output (great weapon steg helm) or go with a little more resilient with the 5++.

Any comments?

 

[boozecluez]

Looking at two different OB cowboy builds:

- killy:

OB, cold one, dawnstone, steg helm, crown, GW: 1+ AS rerollable, S5 impact hits and S7 attacks, T6 stubborn

- more survivable?

OB, cold one, dawnstone, armor of fortune, crown, warrior bane: 1+ AS rerollable, 5++, S5 magical attacks, stubborn

Both are stubborn and both are going to be effective melee, but trying to figure out if I focus on damage output (great weapon steg helm) or go with a little more resilient with the 5++.

Any comments?

I like the first but I would be worried about a cannon to the face ..
I have run the Armour of Destiny/Arabyan carpet/GW before a couple times and he is alot of fun .I didn't have a cold one model at the time so was my way of getting a solo combat unit on the field..I would prefer now to have the extra 50pts worth of goodies, but a flying threat is fun..

Currently having a Gor'rok and Chakax converted to riding cold ones so will plan on running them in my new lists..

I guess it all comes down to how you want to use them ..As a steadfast pain the ass who can hold up a horde you don't want to fight or as a combat beast. If solo ,then I would be worried about not having a ward save/charmed shield .

 

[Knight Errant]

I did a play test last night with the 'survivable' cowboy. charged a warriors nurgle daemon prince with all the goodies turn 2 and held him up until turn 6. Eventually the oldblood died (after 9 rounds of combat!), but it allowed me to focus on the rest of his army without worrying about a nasty DP in the flank. Worth more play-testing for me.

 

[Anubris]

I have a mathhammer question for you guys.

I have a metal chakax model converted to kroq'gar's legs (the old metal carnosaur) and think I might be able to make it fit on a dark elf cold one. Either way it can go on the old carnosaur.

I want to try a WYSIWYG-like build for this oldblood... so when I first looked in the book and at my mounted chakax I imagined:
cold one, great weapon, sacred stegadon helm of itza, talisman of preservation (+possibly other tricksters shard)
This way you are not ''overcapped'' on armour and you get T6, 1+ AS, 4+ wardsave for 261 points.

Now my question would be, how does this build fare against:
cold one, great weapon, armour of destiny, dawnstone (+ possibly other tricksters shard)
This way you are overcapped on your armour save, but you get T5, 1+ rerollable AS, 4+ wardsave for 251 points.

What do you guys think? Toughness 6 with D3 impact hits (at S5 or S7?) vs toughness 5 rerollable armour save (10 points cheaper).