8th Ed. Why Lizardmen

[Andy140491]

Hey guys

It's been a while since I've logged onto this forum, and a while since I last played warhammer itself!

I've always been a massive fan of the lizardmen models and a huge fan of the theme! I'm also a massive magic fan. So I assumed and have head that with the slaan and the priests that lizardmen can be really good in that phase!

I have a few concerns and bugs though, but as I don't have the book ( I have a habit of buying alot of models and goin off them)

Low initiative.- death lore will just destroy them?
No ranged units
Expensive monsters

Now this is just from what I've heard, so I don't know...

But I'm torn between lizardmen and Tomb Kings. Same reason for liking them. The Egyptian theme and models, and the magic synergy in the army, although I've heard about alot of negativity shrouding the TK army.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, perhaps an insight to either army. Thanks

 

[n810]

http://www.lustria-online.com/threads/why-lizardmen.10457/

 

[david l]

There should be a lot of negativity about the TK army. Likely the weakest book out there, certainly the weakest released in 8th. Their troops are generally bad and desperately need magical help, yet TK have to take their own lore on the highest level caster and the TK lore doesn't do enough to help. They can produce extra power dice, but even dual level 4s (one TK lore, one Light) can rarely make up for the awful disadvantages of being TK and the overpriced troops.

Lizardmen have range, just not long range. Skink shooting is useful against monsters (low armour). But no, we don't hurt much with shooting.

Ancient Stegadons are pretty good monsters. Not at the awesomely powerful/underpriced level of Hydra or Abomination, but not too far behind. And I don't think anything else hits the no-brainer standard set by Hydra/Abomination, although perhaps the new WoC Chimera does.

The current Slann makes for an AWESOME magic phase, arguably the best in the game. The priests are largely insignificant to that, and provides their biggest value in taking extra magic defense items.

 

[gapton]

Yes the Slann is one of the best magic caster in the game. The Priest is not so useful especially when you have a Slann. It is only useful for extending the range of Magic Missiles of the Slann (Slann special rule) and also carry arcane items.

We have Skinks for shooter, it is short range but it is versatile. If you go for skirmisher Skinks they will march 12" and shoot 12". You can also choose between blowpipe (2 shots) or javeline.

However the BS of standard skinks are quite low that you will almost always need 6+, but their poison make it excellent for wounding high tough targets.

Chameleon Skinks are scouts and they have an extra point for BS. So they can deploy close to enemy, march 12" and shoot 12" with 2 x multiple shots. A small team of 5 will set you back at 60 points however that is 10 poison shots from the first round and can potentially harm some important war machine or monsters that you must pin down.

Cham are good for quickly taking out lone targets deployed at the flank. For powerful long range attacks you really need to rely on your Slann. Lore of Heaven's Comet of Casandora is great because you can cast it on any fixed location on the table.

Salamanders are great shooter, however it is also short ranged, it can march and shoot but the range is still nowhere near great.

I feel that Lizardmen is balanced and you have a wide range of possible combinations. You have a lot of choices when it comes to battle styles.

I have a friend who plays TK and he said its very difficult to come up with good army lists. Their options are mostly extreme, meaning it will either works wonderfully or fail miserably. They have a tough time picking a general list that can deal with most situations. Their army also offers limited battle styles.

 

[spawning of Bob]

Not sure why, but this thread is also in "Lizardmen Fluff", Fortunately, followers of Spawning of Bob are used to him repeating himself. The following was posted 28/3/13:

He may be biased, but Spawning of Bob believes that lizardmen are far cooler (than Tomb Kings)



and as soon as we get our thunder lizards we will be cooler still.

Otherwise, a direct comparison between Tomb Kings and Lizardmen armies follows:

Chariots vs Stegadon: Stegadon cooler, more mobile and versatile (a chariot warmachine with thunderstomp ? I'll take 3 please), and no terrain problems Vs Chariots are lower maintenance.



Warsphynx vs Stegadon: The sphynx has a bit more punch in stalled combat. I spent half a game getting trying to make sure I didn't get charged, eventually suicidally charging in with my infantry, only to discover that the stupid thing has no impact hits, and I could've killed it in 2 rounds with skirmishers! Live and learn. The Necrosphynx is creepy though....




Immune to psychology and unbreakable etc vs Cold Blood: Stand and shoot is nice, but it is sometimes good to flee.



Cold Blood keeps LM in contention for an extra round or 2 of combat. Anyone who takes on a big LM block had better be planning for them to stick around for a while.

TK archers vs skinks: Arrows of Asaph (ignores to hit modifiers) vs mobility, versatility, and poisoned ability to take out high toughness targets. Skinks will run rings (literally) around that archer block and take out all the pests behind their lines, then come back for seconds of Warsphynx

Initiative Vs Initiative. No worse for LM than usual, except sepulchral stalkers make me cry.

(cartoon pending. eventually)

Killing Blow vs Poisonous shooting. I reckon I can get more poisonous shots off and against my targets of choice that you'll manage with your tomb slugs. Be nice to let the killing blow be wasted on a Skrox frontline but I haven't tried that out.

Magic vs Magic. Slann more versatile, can smother TK magic phase, then spam with extra dice during the LM phase. TK magic feels more like nuisance stuff than deadly. Mostly buffs, or targets whole units rather than a specific threat to heroes, and some is leadership based, so cold blooded helps. Their regen attribute can annoy, but it tends to prolong combat rather than sway the outcome.

Hero on Hero. The only TK heroes I've faced have spent half the game hiding, and the rest running away. My favourite LM vs TK sequence was a lone Scar vet cowboy (of around 160 pts) who charged and eventually wiped out 3 chariots, contributed to the removal of a group of necropolis knights, and then only failed to destroy the casket of souls war machine thingy because one of the attendents got off a killing blow.

Back story and motivation: TK and LM might go off and battle other races for superficially similar reasons (recovery of artifacts, we were here first, etc), but at least the LM have a higher purpose. There may be no consensus on what the purpose actually is but thats not the point. The TK are just a bunch of grumpy old men, sitting on the porch and muttering about the good old days. Never known a lizard to do that. Unless it is in reference to the 6th edition army book.



Humour. There is only one thing funny about TK and that is crumble. And I've already done a cartoon about that.



I believe crumble is not funny if it is happening to you.



Overall, I believe that TK have a few cool models, but LM are cool across the board (I happen to like the retarded cold ones)



I think the TK have some interesting ideas unifying the whole army. But we've got dinosaurs.



I hope, Andy140491, that I have deterred you from making a foolish choice. However, Spawning of Bob is, unfortunately, the worst and least experienced of the LM generals (he hopes that others will expand or correct his ramblings)

Considering Bob's legendary fallibility, it might be best to let the numbers speak for themselves:

The other 140490 people called Andy who are registered Lizardmen players (and who have forced you into such an inauspicious User Name) can't all be wrong!



Dear Lizards, please contribute to the discussion on custom artillery dice http://www.lustria-online.com/threads/custom-artillery-dice-tryouts.10397/.

 

[Caprasauridae]

Spawning of Bob, while being almost two weeks ahead of his time, is also pretty spot on about Tomb Kings. They are challenging to play, very unforgiving, especially for mistakes made in deployment. But they also offer options for making versatile lists (so that your opponents don't get too bored on kicking your ass) and the models are really cool. Almost everything is an uphill battle with the Tomb Kings, so if that is not your thing or if you like to win, Lizardmen are clearly a superior choice. On the other hand, handicapping yourself with the Tomb Kings might make you a better player (this has *not* been scientifically proven and I cannot be held responsible for accidents, burnouts, mental damage, aneurysms, anal leakage or anything, harmful or beneficial, that follows)...