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Can someone in the UK give me context for what is going on? (Political)

Killer Angel said:
Wait.
Ceuta is everything but an out-of-control immigration problem.
These people are sent to ceuta en masse escorted by Morocco's police. They are not migrants, they are a weapon.

in may 2021, 8.000 "migrants" crossed the borders of Ceuta, more than 6.000 in a single day. Why? Spain was giving medical treatments to the leader of the Polisario (a nationalist front opposing the regime of Morocco). that first "migrant crisis" was a political manoveur / reprisal orchestrated by Morocco.

this is happening once again on a bigger scale. Why?
I cannot be sure about it about it, but there are certain facts i cannot not look at:
1) Spain recognized Palestine as an indipendent country and right now is probably the strongest EU adversary to the politic of Israel.
2) Trump is right now in bad terms wih Sanchez, he's threatening to suspend commertial exchanges due to Spain not wanting to align with EU efforts in increasing the military spending (advocated by USA).
3) Morocco is stongly tied to Israel and USA by the recent Abraham accords.

IDK if those are the only reasons behind this crisis (once again, caused primarily by Morocco), but are certainly a factor to consider
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So.... weaponized migrants! ;)

Scalenex said:
I would want to live in a wealthy western country, even if I had to start at the bottom, especially if I had to start at the bottom.
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But which one? Assuming that you were born (again) in that new country.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
But which one? Assuming that you were born (again) in that new country.
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I guess it depends on how much of 43 old me is reborn. 43 yo me and 23 yo me are two different people. How jealous is reborn me? Is reborn me the jealous type?

There is a social tendency that in general that the poorest person in a rich neighborhood feels resentful while the richest person in a poor neighborhood feels lucky.

Even though, the poor person in the rich neighborhood has a nicer house, better food, nicer clothes and a safer environment. A lot of people would rather rule in Hell than serve in Heaven.

I'd do research to find a rich place where the bottom rung of society is still fairly well off. So you know, not the UAE where the bottom rung of society are basically slaves.

Off the top of my head, I think Switzerland or Monaco would probably work. If I was reborn in Ireland during their golden age of growth in the 80s and 90s, I could then immigrate to America after the golden age ended but that's a loophole.
 
I don’t like this youtuber but the policeman is an absolute moron. And its colleagues are no better.
This is exactly the kind of incompetent officers that only damage the public image of the police and (more in general) of the authorities.
How many people are gonna lose their trust in the law and in the government every time this kind of abuse is enacted?

 
Killer Angel said:
I don’t like this youtuber but the policeman is an absolute moron. And its colleagues are no better.
This is exactly the kind of incompetent officers that only damage the public image of the police and (more in general) of the authorities.
How many people are gonna lose their trust in the law and in the government every time this kind of abuse is enacted?

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I saw that and it's pretty bad. When everyone in a (random) crowd is shouting at the police officer, maybe it is time to reassess the situation.

However, to play devil's advocate just a bit (and I am in no way denying that the cop handled it wrong), the kid did make an unfair situation worse. He should have simply complied. Hand over the bat and then proceed to show the officer the receipt, thereby proving that he had just purchased it. I can't imagine anything good ever comes from resisting arrest (even if the arrest is unjust).

That said, I think the US should send over a couple of Texans to take over the entire UK. I think about a 1,000 should do. It's about time.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
However, to play devil's advocate just a bit (and I am in no way denying that the cop handled it wrong), the kid did make an unfair situation worse. He should have simply complied. Hand over the bat and then proceed to show the officer the receipt, thereby proving that he had just purchased it.
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I agree on that
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
However, to play devil's advocate just a bit (and I am in no way denying that the cop handled it wrong), the kid did make an unfair situation worse. He should have simply complied.
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Killer Angel said:
I agree on that
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I agree as well. But I was young and dumb before too.

If the people lose faith in the police, they are more likely to push back. It's sort of a catch-22.
 
The UK is cooked. Beyond the point of no return? I hope not.

Certain segments of the population can carry large knives with them for "Religious reasons", while the native population can't even buy a baseball bat. Sure a baseball bat can be used as a deadly weapon, but so can many other things. I wonder how long until the UK realizes that a car is potentially a far more devastating weapon than a baseball bat. No more driving privileges. :D

And if the UK is so concerned with safety, then why are they allowing thousands of uncheck migrants into their countries.
 
Killer Angel said:
Ceuta is everything but an out-of-control immigration problem.
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It's looking increasingly like an immigration problem.



@Scalenex , this video/topic is adjacent to your thread's original focus, are you okay with a greater focus on Europe as a whole on this thread, or would you prefer that this thread focus on the UK specifically and that I create a thread of my own?
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
@Scalenex , this video/topic is adjacent to your thread's original focus, are you okay with a greater focus on Europe as a whole on this thread, or would you prefer that this thread focus on the UK specifically and that I create a thread of my own?
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Either way is fine, I guess. Immigration is complex enough it's probably worth it's own topic.

I'm not sure I'll participate. It's not that I don't care about immigration, it's that I've beaten this topic to death on other websites I frequent.

I thought maybe the UK was separate from the rest of Europe because I was under the impression that the whole impetus behind Brexit was stemming immigration but nothing substantial happened on that front since then.

Perhaps it's an oversimplification but I am of the opinion that if immigrants assimilate into the culture and values of their host country, a country can absorb an almost infinite number of immigrants. If immigrants don't assimilate, even a small amount of immigrants will cause huge problems.

In the 21st century. Pushing assimilation is called "racist" or "colonialist" or some other "ist".

The elephant in the room no one wants to talk about is that the native birthrate in First World countries has dropped below the rate of replacement. And this trend is showing no sign of reversing.

First World countries have some form of welfare state or pension system that requires a constant stream of new young workers to support the old. Immigrants are better than nothing, but they don't support the system as much as native born workers do.

In order to stem immigration, a country either has to drastically cut the welfare state (which is politically untenable) or force people to have more babies (which is morally untenable).

There are other factors in play, but I think this the biggest one. It applies to the United States, the UK, Canada, South Korea, Japan, France, Germany, Denmark, Norway, and many other countries. Even Second World countries have this problem, but it manifests different and frankly, they have bigger problems.

I believe there is a socialist fueled movement in academia which has spread to the media and politicians that believes that the West deserves to die, as a culture.

It gets a little tin foil hat, but I don't believe there is some evil cabal of conspirators plotting this, I just think a lot of people don't think the long-term ramifications of their ideologies.

On a more short-term basis. In Democracies, a majority of voters emulate the political beliefs of their parents, at least at first. In most First World countries, the Left has fewer babies than the Right, so it feels like politicians pushing for more immigration is a backhanded way to import more voters for their side.

It can go both ways. Defectors from communist regimes tend to vote Right. In America at least, Cuban Americans have a strong tendency to vote Republican and it's noted that Obama and Biden have passed executive orders to make it harder for Cubans to immigrate.

It's a little late now, but I wish America (and the UK) worked harder to let Hong Kongers emigrate out after the CCP cracked down on freedoms there. Little by little, the CCP is making it harder for their citizens to emigrate out.

East Asian immigrants fleeing communism such as Chinese and Cambodian also lean Right, but not as strongly as Cubans. In America at least, a lower percentage of Asian Americans vote in elections than other demographics.
 
Scalenex said:
First World countries have some form of welfare state or pension system that requires a constant stream of new young workers to support the old. Immigrants are better than nothing, but they don't support the system as much as native born workers do.
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Historically I would agree with this, however, this is all about to change. The AI revolution is coming. The issue will no longer be about having enough workers to fill jobs, but instead, having enough jobs for workers.
 
NIGHTBRINGER said:
Historically I would agree with this, however, this is all about to change. The AI revolution is coming. The issue will no longer be about having enough workers to fill jobs, but instead, having enough jobs for workers.
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Career politicians are usually slow to adapt to societal shifts, so they are still thinking with a 20 year paradigm. So I don't think AI enters the political calculus of pro-immigration politicians.

To play Devil's Advocate, I think the "AI Revolution" is a bit overblown and companies are losing money investing in the "The Next Big Thing". I think in ten to twenty years we'll understand the long-term effects of AI better and something new will be the "The Next Big Thing"
 
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