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AoS All Around Best 1K Army List

Discussion in 'Seraphon Army Lists' started by gmoney, Aug 31, 2018.

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  1. LizardWizard
    Troglodon

    LizardWizard Well-Known Member

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    Saurus Astrolith Bearers carry the most weight in a Seraphon army outside of the Slann in my opinion. I am always looking to fit them into my list. You could also take a Skink Starpriest and switch back to Great Remember for your Slann's trait allowing room for some addition Boltspitter Skinks as well.

    I am not sure which option is best at 1k. If you want to remove enemy models quickly then the Astrolith Bearer route is probably preferred. Skinks being able to reroll their failed hits from Proud Defiance become surprisingly killy. You could also plan to go a hybrid of these two paths by taking the Astrolith Bearer and summoning a Skink Starpriest.

    Great Remember at 1k is exceptionally powerful. I would plan to get a Starpriest on the field and drop the Vast Intellect trait. Ideally Summon Starlight is cast from a Skink Starpriest and won't cost your summoning. You want to be using all your Slann's spells to generation Celestial Conjuration points.
     
  2. Killer Angel
    OldBlood

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    OK, not exactly my style, but you could try something like this:

    FIRST LIST (given that this is a generic thread, this one is for anyone with the models to field it. The second list will be focused on the models you own)

    Leader:
    Astrolith Bearer (160)
    Slann Starmaster (260, general - greatremember)
    Battleline:
    2 x 10 skinks (120)
    other:
    Rippers (140)
    4 razors (160)


    I'm leaving out 160 points that can be used accordingly to personale tastes: another 3 rippers plus an endless spell, 4 razors / sallies, 3 kroxy and so on… it doesn't matter, the core of the army is formed by those units, and here's how it works:

    First turn.
    1) double teleport of rippers and razors: at 3+ the razors will be in the right place to fire 8d6, the rippers at 5+ will be able to move and charge. if you roll 5+ for the rippers then place the toad upon your target, otherwise keep the rippers near the razors (that will do the shooting and will be the main target) and place the toad nearby the razors and your rippers.
    2) at the end of the move phase, you'll have 10+d3 summoning point. basically on a 3+ you can summon another unit of rippers. If anyone will charge your razors and/or rippers, they will be also near the toad and you will be able to retaliate with the second unit of rippers. If no one charge them, you'll have 4 razors and 2 units of rippers able to move in the second turn.

    Second Turn.
    adapt your tactic and your summons to the enemy's moves.
     
  3. Killer Angel
    OldBlood

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    SECOND LIST (more tailored on your units)

    This is not a thing I would recommend as it's risky, but can be fun ad will take your opponent by surprise.

    Leader:
    Astrolith Bearer (160)
    Oldblood on foot (120)
    Slann Starmaster (260, general - great remember)
    Battleline:
    10 skinks (60)
    40 saurus warriors (360)

    + 40 pts for endless spells?

    FIRST ROUND.
    - place the astrolith as your last unit, "near" the intended target.
    - teleport the oldblood and the blob of warriors. For both of them you only need 3+ for the tactic to work, but you need those 3s... if you roll both of them you'll be golden, otherwise you will have problems.
    - first roll for the Warriors, so you see if you roll a 5+ or not. with a 5+ you don't have to worry (as your wariors can also move), but let's say say that you roll just a 4: sauri are now stuck at 9" from the target. At that point second teleport for the oldblood and use the command ability to put them at 6".
    - Run with the astrolith to be at least within 10" from a model of your warriors.
    - congratulations, now you have your first turn charge with a horde that delivers (with each model) 2 attacks at 3+ and 1 attack at 4+, all of them rerollable (as long as you have 1 model within 10" of the astrolith).
    - collect 10+d3 summoning points
     
  4. gmoney
    Saurus

    gmoney Member

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    I own everything on this list except the razors (I have gillettes in my bathroom but I don't think the shop owner will let me use those as a proxy). Would the list still work if I replace the razors with more skinks or chama skinks (those are the only real missile units that I have)?
     
  5. Killer Angel
    OldBlood

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    not chama skinks. They are actually a shadow of what they used to be.
    anyway, let's see…

    Leader:
    Astrolith Bearer (160)
    Slann Starmaster (260, general - great remember)
    Battleline:
    10 skinks (60)
    40 skinks (240) - boltsplitters
    other:
    3xRippers (140)
    3xRippers (140)



    First turn.
    1) double teleport of 1 rippers and 40 skinks: the rippers with some luck may get a first turn charge, in any case you'll have 2 toads on the field, which will give great battlefield control, especially given that if the enemy kills one unit you can summon it again)
    2) the boltsplitters skinks have a nice 16" range. Not huge, but you will be able to shoot even with a teleport roll of 3-4. In any case, keep them at the limit of their range, so the astrolith bearer can run and hopefully reach them with the range of its ability.
    It's 40 shots at 3+ rerollable. On average 35 successful hits that wound on 5+, basically forcing a dozen saves with no rend.

    All of this while you are employing 240 pts of skinks, plus the abilities of the slann and the bearer.
    It's nice? yes.
    It's competitive? i don't think.


    If you want to bring some pain, you should consider to invest in some dino.

    Leader:
    Eternity Warden (140) - bodyguard of the Slann
    Slann Starmaster (260, general - vast intellect)
    Battleline:
    2 x 10 skinks (120)
    Behemoths:
    Stegadon (220)
    Others:
    3 x rippers (140)
    3 x Terradons (120)

    1st turn.
    Curse of Fate and Starlight on Stegadon, then teleport. Now on 4+ you can move it and charge, but on a 2+ you can still move it at 9" from your target. Use its ability to move 1d6 for free (maybe with a +1 for CoF, if it wasn't used before), then shoot and charge at full hitting power, protected by 2 spells.

    in the meantime rippers prepare to do the rip, terradons fly toward distant objectives, and you accumulate 4 summoning points, which means that in the second turn you could summon another unit of 3 rippers.
     
  6. gmoney
    Saurus

    gmoney Member

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    @Killer Angel Pause. Chama skinks are bad now? Are you saying that I wasted $50 buying 10 of them and that I shouldn't use them in shadowstrike?

    In the words of Will Smith
    >Now this is a story all about how
    >My life got flipped turned upside down
     
  7. Killer Angel
    OldBlood

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    Your money are not wasted, but 120 points are too much.
    You can work around it, i will give you some suggestion. ;)
     
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  8. gmoney
    Saurus

    gmoney Member

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    Suggest away my guy
     
  9. Killer Angel
    OldBlood

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    You can take a look at this massive thread.
    There's a section dedicated to the shadowstrike starhost, with an analysis and the following debate.

    Then I'll be happy to clarify any doubt or discuss about it.

    Chama skinks are nice to grab objectives, but they cannot hold them for long
    can be used for assassination of squishy characters, but beware the Look Out Sir, as now it is even harder for them to inflict serious wounds, unless you employ a squad of 10... but 240 pts it's no joke.

    If you plan to field a list without a Slann, they are of great help to battlefield control, since you couldn't count on summoning and will have "only" one teleport.
     
  10. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    The reason why Chameleons are so expensive is that they are one of the VERY few units in the game that can teleport right between enemy units, even into melee.
    10 of them are plenty enough to disrupt some armies in a big way. Basically everything that has squishy heroes has major porblems with them. They got even better since now you can sacrifice them to force enemy shooting on them. Teleport them onto a terrain piece , less than 3" away from some big blob of ranged units, or next to some artillery, and the enemy has to spend a full turn not moving and having to shoot Chameleons that have a 3+ save.

    Even more sacrificial: Place a few of them as a road block. If you do that cleverly then the enemy will not kill them in the phase you teleport them in, and has to spend his next turn killing them or retreating, which means he cannot harm other units of yours. Target the flanks of the blob or the rear end of a conga line, where not many models will be able to hit you, and you can still bind them into melee. Even if they kill you, they have to move in the wrong way (away from their intended target) to do so.
     
  11. Killer Angel
    OldBlood

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    On a more general note, I'm actually working on a new 1000 pts list, that i should test this week, possibly posting a BatRep with pictures. No rippers, sorry, I'm not able to squeeze them in for the lack of 20 pts :(
    but the list seems promising, so I'll let you know.
     
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  12. gmoney
    Saurus

    gmoney Member

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    @Aginor I was planning to put 10 chama skinks in my 2k and 5 in my 1k. The plan was to use them as secondary assassins with my rippers in 2k shadowstrike and standalone units in 1k but if all they're good for is being expensive sandbags, then I might as well not use them. I made a simulation in R and found that a group of 10 doesn't even do a lot of damage (see below)

    [1] "0 + saves: 0"
    [1] "1 + saves: 0"
    [1] "2 + saves: 1.228"
    [1] "3 + saves: 2.229"
    [1] "4 + saves: 3.314"
    [1] "5 + saves: 4.449"
    [1] "6 + saves: 5.54"

    >inb4 why didn't you just do expected values
    >because I'm a masochist that's why

    I mean bruh 240 points and they only do 5.5 damage per round on 6+ saves. The utilities you mentioned seems really nice and handy but they also look to be pretty hit or miss.

    In contrast, 40 skinks can do more damage, have more wounds, and sounds to be pretty annoying from the battle reports that I've read (shout out to that guy who did a 4 week escalation league).

    [1] "0 + saves: 0"
    [1] "1 + saves: 0"
    [1] "2 + saves: 1.452"
    [1] "3 + saves: 2.943"
    [1] "4 + saves: 4.422"
    [1] "5 + saves: 5.94"
    [1] "6 + saves: 7.363"
     
  13. gmoney
    Saurus

    gmoney Member

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    Lmao rippers aren't necessary it's just that in my last thread everyone was saying shadow, thunder, and 1 drop fangs are the meta builds for 2k so I bought models for shadow (skinks, chamo skinks, rippers, star priest). Obviously I'm going to be interested in meta builds that use shadowstrike models to save money but I'm still very interested in meta 1k builds using all the models in the seraphon list.

    Might buy the 3 razors though. That double TP razors and ripper strat you mentioned seems pretty good.
     
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  14. John1974
    Cold One

    John1974 Active Member

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    i like the shadowstrike starhost, but i run mine with a bastiladon

    LEADER
    Skink Starpriest 80

    UNITS
    x3 Ripperdactyls 140
    x3 ripperdactyls 140
    x10 skinks 60
    x20 skinks 120

    Bastiladon 280

    Shadowstrike Starhost 180

    1000/1000

    i split the rippers and drop them in 2 different turns to avoid 1 being taken out in retaliation. but if the oppostition doesnt have alot of units, then i put it into a unit of 1
     
  15. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    The main point is really that the Chameleons can be everywhere, anytime. Their _potential_ damage is juuuuust high enough so many opponents cannot ignore them. Pretty much what all deep striking units should be. They aren't supposed to do a lot of damage. They should be good enough to just add those extra few wounds to kill something.
    It is true that against some armies they don't do a lot on their own. But they are good in combos.

    Example:
    I played a Shadowstrike with six Terradons and ten Chameleons. The damage by the Terradons was not enough to kill the Maw-Krusha I was targeting, but then I just teleported my Chameleons near, and together with the flyers' melee damage it was enough to kill it.
    I did the same several times, for example with archers from a Kunnin' Rukk, and even with a Rogue Idol.


    That being said: I am also a fan of regular Skinks, 40 of them buffed by an Astrolith have won me more games than anything else.
     
  16. gmoney
    Saurus

    gmoney Member

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    Why won't this list be competitive? It's using the same strategy as the list you gave with the 4 razors with the advantage of more wounds at the expense of a higher costs. 40 skinks and 4 razordons have roughly the same damage output on average for all save levels. Plus 40 skinks cost $70 compared to $120 for 4 razors haha.
     
  17. gmoney
    Saurus

    gmoney Member

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    @Aginor with all their utility, do you still think chamos are worth taking in 1K? I'm on the fence between them and regular skinks (they look to be almost a necessity in 2k shadow so at least I know my $50 did not go to waste).

    From this thread and all the others I've read a lot of 1k lists center around slann/astro, rippers, basti/stega, saurus warriors horde. Are these considered the meta 1K lists? Can you also post your most successful/favored 1K lists? I would like to compile all the various 1K list suggestions that I've come across in this forum for future reference.
     
  18. Aginor
    Slann

    Aginor Fifth Spawning

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    I think you can make Chameleons work in 1k, but they are too expensive to be optimal.
    I'd probably say they start to really be worth it at 1250 points.

    As for the "meta":
    You never know. We learned from great competitive players like @darren watson that a good player can come up with a list made of units that are considered suboptimal and beat top lists with them.

    My personal experience is this:
    I have never played Kroak lists, I have never played Rippers, and I have never played a Thunderquake with an EotG and I still usually win my games. So unless you play very competitively you can get away with playing suboptimal stuff most of the time.

    I do think though that the "best" 2k lists for us right now are
    - Shadowstrike with Rippers
    - Thunderquake
    - one-drop lists using Dracos tail

    And for most of them it is worth to go the summoning route. A Slann and an Astrolith Bearer are pretty much must take, and the EotG is pretty good as well.
    I admit I have no experience with mass Saurus Warriors, so good lists using Saurus I have no clue about. I think a Sunclaw in a Fangs of Sotek list can be devastating though.


    For 1k you can play without summoning, but then you practically have to play some sort of deep strike. My go to list for 1k has been a 6xTerradon, 50 Skinks Shadowstrike for a long time. I played it in AoS1 and AoS2 against several armies and didn't meet a lot of resistance. I am aware though that moat of my opponents weren't necessarily playing top lists or top armies either.

    Here it is. It is an alpha strike list, and yeah people will call it cheesy. The goal is pretty much to annihilate the biggest threat in round one using the bombs and regular attacks of the Terradons, and then outlast the enemy by shooting and retreating, possibly even teleporting the Skinks around.
    The Astrolith makes the Skinks way more scary than many opponents think.
    The list has eaten a Kharadron clown car list, a Kunnin Rukk, several Ironjawz lists, including ones using Maw-Krushas, a few Stormcast including Stardrakes (no really competitive lists though) and some others.


    Allegiance: Seraphon

    Leaders
    Skink Starpriest (80)
    - general, some artefact to keep him alive
    Saurus Astrolith Bearer (160)

    Battleline
    40 x Skinks (240)
    - Boltspitters & Star Bucklers
    10 x Skinks (60)
    - Boltspitters & Star Bucklers

    Units
    6 x Terradon Riders (240)
    - Sunleech Bolas

    Battalions
    Shadowstrike Starhost (180)

    Endless Spells
    Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)

    Total: 1000 / 1000
    Extra Command Points: 1
    Allies: 0 / 200
    Wounds: 78
     
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  19. LizardWizard
    Troglodon

    LizardWizard Well-Known Member

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    I love playing 1k Shadowstrike. It is very competitive. I usually run something similar to this list when my club house goes to doubles tournaments. On more than one occasion we have been able to alpha strike key units off the table and essentially win turn one.
     
  20. Killer Angel
    OldBlood

    Killer Angel Prophet of the Stars Staff Member

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    leaving aside $ :))p)

    we should count the points.

    40 skinks (240), should be put on par not with 4 razors, but with with 6 razors (240), or a combo 4 razors / 2 sallies

    skinks have more wounds and works better to keep and hold an objective, but they are also more frail and die more easily.
    Speaking from the "delivering fdamage" pov, this is important because if i lose a couple of razors, the survivors will shoot in the same way, while if i lose 11 skinks, the 29 survivors will lose a +1 to shooting, which is much less effective.

    Don't misunderstand me, 40 skinks are good. But at 1000 point it's 1/4 of your points. and the other 1/4 is the Slann.
    It leaves you with little room
     
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