So I posted this as a fluff suggestion on the 9th age forum, but I actually like it more than just a simple reply to a thread about who and what the lizard should be beyond 8th ed. So here is my take on the new Reptilians society: The first creatures to have discovered civilization and advanced form of counting is said to be the Agamid society. They were calculating the movement of stars, moons and planets long before others mastered the wheel. They made tunnels through the big mountain change that covers most of their inlands, roads through jungle and trading post among the many rivers that passed both jungle and savannah. From early on, the different kingdom of the agamids understood the value of trade instead of war, and their natural instinct made them better at aspiring to fulfill their call in a society than most other intelligent life does. So cooperating among civilization within the world of the agamids was never an issue. It simply came much easier to them. Great civilization arose within the lands of the agamids and with it came the largest cities of the world, with running water fresh from the mountains, carried to their via wise crafted tunnels and structures. Making the cites even more pleasant to live within, meaning more agamids, more ingenuity, less famine and less conflict among the nations. The Agamids had only one other race that they encountered, they ancient Cuyatls. A close cousin to the agamid perhaps. They were larger than the small agamids, much bigger indeed, with a frog like head and a huge body, carried by small legs and arms. Luckily these creatures were so intoned with the mystical forces of the world that they did not use these puny legs of theirs; they would simply float on a palanquin when they need to go places. The Agamids would pay homage to the Cuyatls, not because they feared them, but because the Cuyatls would tell them riddles of the future and grant them knowledge from beyond the mortal realm. So high on the mountains the agamids build the Cuyatls giant sky temples, wherein the Cuyatls could meditate and only be disturbed if the agamids needed guidance. Un fortunately for the agamids, not all other creatures came to the same peaceful conclusion on civilization then they and soon they had to face the wrath of green hides and barbaric men coming from the east and the west. They would raid the cities easiest approachable. The cities, that were not within mountain range nor jungle, were most often the victims. As the years passed the agamids attempted many ways of keeping them a bay. Giant walls of great ingenuity was build surrounding the cities, but the hording warfare's, build siege weapons to get through eventually. The Agamids feared for their life and had now only one option, they went to the Cuyatles, sitting in their sky temple and asked for guidance. The Cuyatles answered them, for even though they seemed oblivious to the mortal realm, they had sensed the fear and hopelessness in the souls of the agamids. "First to the deepest junlge one must seek, " Then one's mind must know of the grain one bred, " The feral gruesome foe that your land a torn, "Shall know the pain of the War born!" Of course the agamids did not understood the message at first. They searched the jungle for any sign of what it could have meant, while many of the greatest mind wondered upon the meaning of their grain. Until one agamid name Lednem the Chieftan, finally came up with an idea! He had in his youth seen the mighty land crocodile roam the jungles. huge bulky bipedal beasts, they were. With a slight concept of social structures within their packs, they would build nests and muster in groups for hunting the large creatures of the jungle. Lednam was now a devoted farmer of lima beans and noticed that he could make the best growth multiply if he only bred them. He thought to himself: "if only the best suited for the cause, of these land crocodiles, were bred in the same manner. Perhaps one could get a warrior more fierce and more fit to defend us poor agamids, than by any other mean." And so the protect begun! The best suited land crocodiles was investigated and their nests was carefully searched for suitable eggs, to hatch and be bred in captivity. How long it took the jungle agamids to find the best match and how many had to sacrifice their life, is not known, but eventually the projected took off. The crocodiles was bred and thought in captivity, the best suited was then allowed to bred the most and the process repeated itself. After several of generation, the land crocodiles got a more upright posture, they began became more intelligent and understood simple language, but most importantly they were know a perfect creature attuned for war, a War-Born! The new creatures were a success, they met the enemy in open battle, in the tough terrain of mountain ranges and jungles, everywhere with the same result: total annihilation of their opponents! In order of rewarding the Cuyatls, for their contribution to the emerging danger that seemed inevitable, they gave them a special breed of War-Born. These were bred to great discipline and never to leave their masters out of sight. The Agamids called them the Shrine Guards and they would from that day on, stand guard on the sky temples to look out for danger and serve the Cuyatl blindly. EDITS and Changes to out ordinary concept of Reptilians aka Lizardmen: Skinks = Agamids, one agamid, several agamids. Has gender Saurus = War-born, one war-born, several war-born; Shrine guards if Temple guardians. Has gender Slann = Cuyatl, one cuyatl, several cuyatls. Non gendered
I like that the dynamics are so different from what we traditionally know. Skinks are the creators? My dear skinks, they deserve this kind of spot light. I'm happy for them. If this is a continuation after the End Times, we could easily detach from the idea that they need spawning pools by referring back to what Jeff Goldbloom said in Jurassic park; "Life will find a way". Asexual to sexual reproduction? weirder things have happened in real life. I like these origins =)
Thanks, Mate! Well I'm a biologist (Half) so natural selection and preservation of the favoured gene-pool, comes naturally to my mind set. I figured that since it's basically a mystery how these creature came about in the GW back ground, why not flip-flop it, and make the origin of the creatures biological plausible. Human would still think similar of the lizard: regarding the Cuyatls as leaders and skinks as mindless servants; while the War-born, simply came out of nothing, human would probably think of them as spawned from pools, since they themselves has little knowledge on genetic breeding and what that implies.
Along the same idea, you could work in some hormone triggers that make a "saurus" into a "kroxigor" somehow, just a thought
I was thinking the same thing, it makes them bigger, but unfortunately less intelligent. Making them not possible to use as generals and captain of an army, even simple commands are less well discipline into them, thus seeing them less in the rank and files; while useful for what there used for in the current/GW setting.
Anurid High Priests - Cuyatls of the Sky temples Despite what many foreign civilizations of elves, men or beasts would come to suggest, during their encounters with the reptilians, the Cuyatls are, in fact, neither gods to the agamids or superior in any political since. They would seem such though, to the outside looking. Many agamids come bearing offerings to the high priest Cuyatls, to gain knowledge of the rift through reality, of which the Cuyatls has such good vision. The agamids does not do this because they worship the Cuyatl, or because the Cuyatl forces them to. The main reason for the offering and the agamids listening to the advice from the Cuyatls is of respect and understanding. The agamids knows very well how wise and true the powers of Cuyatls can be. As the potential use of the knowledge gain from the visions of the Cuyatls is worth the effort, for any agamids bringing offerings. In most cases it is priests, wise men and scholars that visits the High Temple, where in the Cuyatl dwells. They bring them fine offering and says nothing to the Cuyatl, as they enter the room, lay down the gifts and leaves again. Perhaps this is why, so many mistakes this as an act of worshipping of the Cuyatls, but in fact the agamids are well aware of the telepathic powers of the Cuyatls. Any offering and request is done through the mind link of agamid wise and the high Cuyatl. The notion of Cuyatls as being of godly nature is not uncalled for, though. They spent most of their lives meditating and are only truly aware of the world in a very short period of the day. The reason for their long meditative states are doubtful. Agamid scholars and priests has pointed out, that the power to see through the rift of reality is shattering for most souls; thus only with pure meditation to strengthen the power of the soul, can the Cuyatl spend so much time observing the shards of realities. It might also be here the great mystery of magic lies. The Cuyatls are surely the masters above all, when it comes to this mysterious forge know as magic. It could very easily be because, magic is positioned just outside the domain of reality, in which the Cuyatls spends most of their time, meditating to enter. The long time away from the actual physical world is dangerous for any creatures, since it leaves no time to alertness of any threats of material kinds. Luckily the Shrine guards are specifically bred, as perfect guardians. They will stay put next to their assigned Cuyatls, for their entire life, not leaving the side for a moment. Always aware of potential dangers they keep a watchful eye out at any time a day. Should any Cuyatl decide, for whatever reason, that it most join a conflict of physical aspects, the shrine guards will follow him into battle and beyond.
Agamids The Agamids lives in a caste based society, with merchants living all their life as merchant, priestess as priestess and chieftains as chieftains. However it is quite unlike similar human or elven societies, since no castes are deem more valuable than the others and every member of the castes is expected to do their duty. So they will do not due to a desire of becoming higher ranked, either in this or the next life, but in order of achieving their task in life, as well as possible. Thus it's not so they can gain some higher divine intervention themselves, but such that their dynasty can. For it is the family and the common good of the caste that is the religious goal in the agamid society. The agamids principle of belief and also very much their way of life, is based on a single metaphor: That each stone of a temple is as important and valuable as the next. Some might seem more impressive, but without the fundament and the corner stones, they would not be at all. The only castes that in some respects undertake several tasks during their life, are the chieftains. They need to know how the breeder breeds, how the hunter hunts and the merchant trades, in order of knowing fully how best to lead them. So it is that a chieftain, as a very young lizard, is send out to join other families and other castes, each year until they reach maturity. There are in fact several kingdom within the lands of the agamids, all has some degree of this caste based system. However the variation in the castes might vary, some kingdoms might consider breeders of beasts, bugs and plants, to be a different class, others might think of them as the same, the same goes for several other casts that could be split to different classes or has a lot in common and thus fused into one. Fisher and hunter could be one or two castes, due to their common field of catching a living creature; baker, brewer and alchemist could be considered the same, since they all involve making materials into other materials. In truth the agamids society is almost as varied as any other races of hummanoid, but the agamid tend to be lawful, having a strong desire to fulfilled the task their society has granted them by birth, and with no particular desire to revolt or go against the system. This makes some races, think of agamids like mindless drones, were in fact they are simply happy with the life they are living.
War-Born As a caste for themselves, the war-born are breed for war and guardian duty. They act as solely as the arms of war, for the agamids society, for they are not needed to perform any other task. This is most likely due to the fact, that many in between soldier and common man relationships that men have, are not needed in the agamid realm. For instance are there little use for law enforcers, since stealing or breaking the law, simply isn't a concept the agamids understand. Neither does merchants fear their goods stolen, at least not within the lands of agamids (Arguably most trade is within agamid kingdoms); such agamids with knowledge of the wild, are more preferable to have along such a trip, much more so than a bulky soldiers. It is thus not the lands within where the war-born are most abundant, but on the borders and beyond the lands of agamids. Here endless conflict with creatures, who doesn't comprehend civilisation, are fought in veracious manner; the war-born fears not the conflict of war and are not easily broken. The war-born will come marching in close formation, using their large shield to protect them against arrows, while they march closer and closer. Once in melee, the war-born use their bronze weapons, as well as their personally weaponry to rip apart their foes. Few other forces as such a relentless and powerful infantry line up and many a civilised society, deemed unfit by the agamids, and time to time by the Cuyatls, has been annihilated and torched to the ground, never to arise again. Few question are asked and few prisoners taken, when the war-born has been instructed to take care of unworthy humans. It is important to note that these are rarely genocide, if ever, it is the stones and bricks that offends the agamids, so close to their lands; the ill manner of so called "civilised" humans, that makes them let the war-born loose upon them. Cities and towns are burned to the ground, while many children, women and elderly are freely allowed to flee the gate without any war-born stopping them in their flight. War-born are drilled by agamids breeders and war-born unfit to fight in war any longer. These veterans are most likely without limbs to qualify for the life span of the war-born is almost too long, for them to die of old age. The veterans will teach the young war-born how to march in formation, how to wield shield and weapon, even survival out in the wild. The breeders will teach them about the kingdom and importance of the agamids society, so that the war-born understand the principle of what they fight for. Once deemed fit, their first task is often border patrol among more veteran battalions. Here they might face everything from hording marauders, be it orc, man or orgre, to vile and odd creatures attempting to spread their evil. The ones that survives these encounters, may be send off to other far away assignments of various kind. Perhaps they will find glory, perhaps death, but these things matters not to them.
You should difinitely do that! I'm brewing up something myself, but I fear it might turn out slightly longer then I at first intended
Interesting stuff! I was originally going to nitpick about your inclusion of "lima beans" here, and was going to suggest you use maize, or corn (sorry about using Wikipedia as the source, I am a tad lazy tonight), which was originally cultivated the valley of Mexico around 2500BC. BUT THEN on a whime I decided to look up lima beans, and discovered that their original cultivation ALSO came from the pre-Columbian Americas, specifically the andes mountains around 2000BC as well! Also learned that the term "lima" beans actually comes from the name of the city in Peru. Not sure if you intended this or not, but I thought it was very cool. Is the general culture of the Lizardmen in this new fluff supposed to be based on the Aztecs/Mayas/Incas/ other Pre-Columbian cultures of the Americas? Also curious about where the names come from. "Cuyatl" sounds vaguely "mayan" but what about Agamids? I am guessing from the skink's iguana heritage?
I do not remember if this was intentionally or not. I wanted to give them a great source of nutrients, like the soy beans of the Asian agriculture, which has been a quite important source of both protein and carbs in generally for many people over the years (that and rice, of course, lot and lots of rice! ). I can't recall if I already mentioned it, but I just can't see them cultivating large animals for eating purposes (Only), but I could see them using bugs and other insects and farmed them in large shelters. Sort of like how scientist do when they sue flies for scientific testing. Again a great source or nutrients and they're easier to get into a small space than a dino-pig Cuyatl isn't mine, I stole that from the 9th age, was going to suggest my idea originally to them, but they already had enough people on the fluff staff. Yes agamids is from the family of lizards called agamids, they are a group of reptiles much more resplendence the actual features of the skinks, then the real world skink, so I though it would be a fun name to use.
Sochoise, Sochotl and Sochos the Great The name crocodile is not used by the agamid society to refer to such a creature, in fact they have two words for the variation of very different, yet still distinctly, crocodilian creatures. The crocodiles men would be familiar with is called a sochotl, they are primarily equal to their counterparts living in lands outside the dominion of the agamids, aquatic in principle. The other variation is the sochoise, this is the term for every terrestrial crocodile dwelling in the jungles, savannahs and open plains. They vary in size just like their aquatic cousins, from tiny dog sized to larger than an elephant. It is also such creatures that was taken in and bred into the war-born ages pasts, such that war-born is essentially a sochoise (This is however an insult to most War-born, if not meant as in a pure scientific statement). The words might seem very distant to any warm-blooded reader, the answer to this is however very simple. The names is an alteration of the name Sochos, whom is the deity of wild and hunting in the pantheon of agamids. He has in later days become a god of war, since he is understood to be the father of every sochoise and sochotls in wild and thus also by extension the war-born themselves. The War-born are however not the only sons of Sochos used the the defence of the Agamid Kingdoms. There are the mutual union of two distinct sons that are the Symbos of Sochos, War-born whom rides a distinct cousin, known as a Cold Dwelling Sochoise (due to it’s habitat of swamp and bogs, where it digs hole in the muddy terrain to cool down, during hotter seasons), but in labour term often referred to as a Cold-One. These are essentially larger cousin of the original feral War-born ancestors. While the war-born ancestors were primarily bipedal, which eventually turn into the more humanoid shape of modern war-born, the Cold-One, both domesticated and wild, are more semi-bipedal and both prefers quadrupedal stance when moving at high speed. The function of the Symbos of Sochos, in military use is that of cavalry; they are used as shock troops, as the Cold-One are both fairly fast and tough they make a large impact once they collide with an opponent. They also tend to scare other cavalry as they are predators in the wild, unlike horses, camels and elephants; this also leads them with the advantages of large talons, powerful jaws filled with razor sharp teeth and a killer instinct. However this also comes with a disadvantage, as their feral and predatory instinct can be difficult to overcome in the heat of battle, often making them react against the riders will. Not because they are unintelligent, but because perhaps the opposite. Another sochoise used are the huge Sochos’ Gores, also known as Coxigors (Which easily can be heard as Kroxigors, for anyone not native to the tongues of the agamids), these mighty bipedal creatures towers over even the largest of the War-born and tend to be used along side cohorts of agamids, for a sense of control. They are given large picked clubs to wield in battle, used as can opener against heavily armoured foes. Finally there is the large alpha predator of the agamid jungles, Carnage sochoise, these are elephant sized behemoths with teeth as big as a hand and talons the size of a man’s torso. They rip through any prey they come by and their fearsome roar can be heard miles away. Only the strongest and most fearsome of war-born could hope to ever tame such a creature, for the Carnage sochoise are simply to feral and aggressive to ever allow attempts of domestication, as with several of the other sochoise. Naturally these are not the only creatures used by the agamids forces, but these are the primary son of Sochos that most men will have a heard stories of, in many cases terrifying tales, for the sons of Sochos spares none...