Codex: Old Ones

[Charistoph]

So, I want to generate a 40K codex to represent them and would like help from the community here to decide on a direction. I want to basically bring the Fantasy Army Book forward, but with sufficient changes to allow them to still be 40K. I don't want this to be a 100% port. It just won't work well, I think. So on to some helpful questions.

FIRST QUESTION: Should they be completely biological, with no vehicles and completely rely on organic constructs for their "vehicles", or convert some/all of the Monsters and mounts in to Walkers, Tanks, Bikes, etc.?

SECOND QUESTION: I have a chart written up in how I think the Fantasy units should pair up, but would like your all's input to help keep a cohesive mix. Which would you choose for these units?

• Unit -> Fantasy Slot -> Fantasy Type-> 40K Slot -> 40K Type
• Slann Mage-Priest -> Lord -> Infantry (Character) -> HQ -> Infantry (Character)
• Oldblood -> Lord -> Infantry (Character) -> HQ -> Infantry (Character)
• Scar-Veteran -> Hero -> Infantry (Character) -> HQ -> Infantry (Character)
• Skink Priest -> Hero -> Infantry (Character) -> HQ -> Infantry (Character)
• Skink Chief -> Hero -> Infantry (Character) -> HQ -> Infantry (Character)
• Saurus Warriors -> Core -> Infantry -> Troops -> Infantry
• Skink Cohort -> Core -> Inf, Mon Inf -> Troops -> Infantry
• Skink Skirmishers -> Core -> Infantry -> Fast -> Infantry
• Temple Guard -> Special -> Infantry -> Elites -> Infantry
• Jungle Swarms -> Special -> Swarm -> Fast -> Beast
• Chameleon Skinks -> Special -> Infantry -> Elites -> Infantry
• Cold One Riders -> Special -> Cavalry -> Fast -> Cavalry
• Kroxigor -> Special -> Mon Inf -> Heavy -> Infantry
• Terradon Riders -> Special -> Mon Cav (Fly) -> Fast -> Jet Pack Cavalry
• Stegadon -> Special -> Monster -> Heavy -> MC
• Bastildadon -> Special -> Monster -> Heavy -> MC
• Ripperdactyl Riders -> Special -> Mon Cav (Fly) -> Elites? -> Jet Pack Cavalry
• Ancient Stegadon -> Rare -> Monster -> Elites -> MC
• Salamander Pack -> Rare -> Mon Beast -> Heavy -> Beast
• Razordon Pack -> Rare -> Mon Beast -> Heavy -> Beast
• Troglodon -> Rare -> Monster -> Elites -> MC

THIRD QUESTION: I'm looking at the following for the army's special rules, and yes, they will be largely translated over. What is your input?

Cold-Blooded -*used for most units
Whenever a model with this special rule takes a Leadership test, it rolls and additional dice and discards the highest result.

Predatory Fighter -*Mostly for Saurus Units
Whenever a model with this special rule rolls a 6 To Hit in close combat, it immediately makes another Attack; roll To Hit and To Wound as normal. Attacks generated by the Predatory Fighter special rule do not generate further Attacks.

Aquatic -*Mostly on Skink Units
Models with this rule treat any water features as open ground when they move. In addition, these models have the Stealth (Water) special rule.

Scaly Skin -*Mostly on Saurus Units
Models with this rule add +1 to their Armour Save Rolls. -example: Saurus Warriors will have a 4+ Armour Save, but will be successful on a 3+, though, AP: 4 will still disallow the Armour Save OR reroll failed Armour Save rolls.

Edit: Decided on the types and slots of the Army Book elements. Should Scaly Skin be an Armour Save modifier or a reroll?

 

[Centurion]

1:
I'd go with some high technology upgrades that mix with the low tech lizardman natural toughness. Skinks with rocket propelled javelins, saurus with chainswords, armour plated stegadon etc. It's worth considering that in 40k fluff the Old ones created the Eldar and the Orks, so any technological position between the two of them would fit. It might also be worth building the army so it can be played as an official 40k army as well, and model accordingly. Sadly there are no prefect matches, but tyranids might be a reasonable choice (skinks as termagants, saurus as genestealers, krox as warriors, plenty of monsters to represent the dinos).

2:
I'd go cavalry, beasts, jump pack cavalry or monstrous creature for all. It fits the fact they are living creatures better. You might consider jetbikes for the terradons/rippers for their speed and toughness boosts though - it's worth remembering 40k doesn't really have combined model stats like fantasy, so some compramise with stats would be required.

3:
Most of these rules port over pretty well, although I'd consider making scaley skin a 6+ feel no pain save, as this already exists in the rules and stacking armour would be pretty harsh in 40K without armour modifiers. It's also worth considering that predetory fighter will be more powerful in 40k as you can generally get more attacks in combat.

If you are doing a straight port of stats over from the fantasy book, I'd suggest dropping all BS stats by 1 (since there are no to hit modifiers, and everyone is a skirmisher) and replace the skirmisher rule with scout. You'll also have to think about rules for weapons and armour, and magic, although I guess most of that can be easily swapped for a 40k verson (e.g. halberds become power weapons, great weapons become power fists, magic level = psychic mastery level etc)

 

[Charistoph]

Okay, good to know. Just as an FYI, I wasn't intending this to be a 100% port. What I mean by that is that, for example, Cold One Riders would be literally riding bikes instead of two-legged dinosaurs, Terradon Riders would be riding sky-bikes like Eldar, Stegadons would be a four-legged Walking Tank closer to a War Walker than a Wraith Lord, etc. But that's only if we wanted to show a mix of organic and technological. I was more curious if we should intentionally make their warfare as organic as possible for ground troops. It could easily go either way.

I understand Skaly Skin may get confusing. But I wanted to give Saurus have Power Armour without actually giving them Power Armour. Perhaps a rerollable Armour Save instead?

Weapon systems I intend to be a mix of Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Ork equipment. The theory being that the Eldar and Krork's weaponry started out as that of the Old One's first soldiers. Skinks will largely use Poisoned weapons similar to Dark Eldar Splinter weapons (though, less powerful), and Sauruses will have Shuriken-style weapons.

Some stats will be a straight port over, but others will have to be altered. For example, Kroxigors don't have any BS, but I intend for them to be the Heavy Weapon wielders of Skink Cohorts and in their own squads, so their BS would be raised to a 2 or 3, depending on how the Heavy Weapons are set up.

 

[Centurion]

Sounds reasonable, although I'd go for bionic cold ones and dinos rather than bikes and walkers for a more lizardman-y feel. Similar to ork cyboars and squiggoths. Your choice though obviously, just pick the most appropriate unit type.

Another alternative for the scaly skin could be re-roll ones on your armour save? Saurus with a 3+ save in 40k seems wierd unless they are heavily converted. (Maybe shields converted into some sort of energy field?) Bare in mind a tyranid warrior is heavily protected by natural armour, much more so than a saurus appears, and only gets a 4+. It is of course up to you, and if you can justify the increased save and pay an appropriate number of points for it, go for it.

As for weapons, consider going heavy on wierd energy weapons and force fields - these are the technologies that both Eldar and Orks have a mastery of that the Imperium struggles to match. (E.g. - Shokk Attack Gun)

 

[Charistoph]

Another alternative for the scaly skin could be re-roll ones on your armour save? Saurus with a 3+ save in 40k seems wierd unless they are heavily converted. (Maybe shields converted into some sort of energy field?) Bare in mind a tyranid warrior is heavily protected by natural armour, much more so than a saurus appears, and only gets a 4+. It is of course up to you, and if you can justify the increased save and pay an appropriate number of points for it, go for it.

I was intending the models to NOT be naked. Their natural armor may be fine for facing primitives, but would mean little on the modern battlefield. It would make for a greater modelling challenge, but worth it if the codex works out as a written project.

As for weapons, consider going heavy on wierd energy weapons and force fields - these are the technologies that both Eldar and Orks have a mastery of that the Imperium struggles to match. (E.g. - Shokk Attack Gun)

Indeed. The trick is to make them usable without losing the character. For example, a Kroxigor may be able to carry a Starcannon, but if I set them to being BS 2, would mean little to it unless the ROF was increased to compensate, prices reduced, range reduced (they shoot like Orks), or other factors. It's part of the challenge of this project.

Edit: Slann will be able to pick from any rulebook Discipline, and I currently have them starting at Psyker Mastery Level 4. Biomancy and Divination will be fine for the Skinks (no real weather Psyker power), but they will be Level 1 at base, with an option for Level 2.

I will keep the Army Book elements as organics, but I think I will have to put some inorganic things in there, as spaceborne Transports, if nothing else. Maybe introduce the Quetzel as a Flying Monstrous Creature to act as their "Fighter"?