Terradon
Fhanados
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So in the ongoing 40k 8th edition thread I’ve posted a bit on Chaos Space Marines. Thanks to some suspicious links of questionable legitimacy over on another forum that will remain nameless, I’ve managed to get a copy of the Chaos index. To say I’m excited right now is an understatement. So rather than clutter up the existing thread I thought I’d mind-spew into a new one! In this thread I’ll be sharing my thoughts and analysis on the Heretic Astartes, our new fancy name for Chaos Marines, some thoughts on Daemons and our good stompy friend the Renegade Knight.
So first up, what’s changed? Lots, and not much. Obviously there are a lot of core rule changes in general that affect Chaos Marines but the big changes specific to us was the “removal” of Legions and Marks of Chaos. Legions and Marks are now Keywords, and in themselves don’t grant any benefits but it does open up some options for synergy later on.
I’m going to take a moment now to talk about the changes to Legions and Marks. Let’s start with Legions, since that seems to have caused the most controversy. So what were “Legions” in 7th edition? Well until the Traitor Legions supplement, nothing. Traitor Legions introduced 2 “layers” of rules for each of the 9 Traitor Legions: a suite of special rules that were gained from being declared a certain Legion, and each Legion had its own detachment that provided MORE special rules unique to that legion. Each individual Legion also had their own Warlord Traits and Relics. Wow that’s a lot of stuff! And it all had horrendous internal balance which ultimately cumulated with Death Guard being hands down the best.
Marks in 7th were an upgrade where you paid points to dedicate your units to a certain god and got a bonus for it. This is all well and good in a competitive sense – you took the mark that most benefited the unit’s role (so… Nurgle on everything?) but they were unbalanced as well. Tzeentch was almost always useless, Slaanesh and Khorne situational (and both combat oriented) and Nurgle always useful. So another win for Death Guard!
So what are the Legions and Marks now? A Keyword. Nothing more. No special rules, no special detachments, no formations, relics or warlord traits. Some units will already have a pre-set Legion, for example Abaddon the Despoiler has the BLACK LEGION keyword. Other units will have <LEGION>, which means you can pick what Legion to put there. You’re not limited to the original 9 Traitor Legions either, you can use any known Legion or Warband name or just make up your own! No longer are you punished for using Crimson Slaughter instead of Black Legion, or Eightscarred instead of World Eaters. The <MARK> Keyword is the same except you can either choose to have no mark at all and lose the keyword, or choose one of the 4 gods (no, you cannot take the mark of Malal. Damn hipsters!). Your mark will determine which Icon you can purchase and some abilities will only affect models with a certain god’s keyword. It’s basically EXACTLY the same as the Slaves to Darkness units in AoS that can choose which god to be dedicated to.
Veterans of the Long War is also gone, replaced with Death to the False Emperor which grants an extra attack against Imperium units if you roll a 6+ to hit in combat. I can’t help but feel like this is WAY worse than And They Shall Know No Fear, but I expected that and it really just encourages me to hit those smug Loyalists in the face with a chainsaw even harder anyway.
Icons are a bit different. The Khorne and Nurgle ones fill much the same roles as before. The Tzeentch one is a 1/6 chance to cast a mini-smite each Psychic phase, and the Slaanesh one makes Death to the False Emperor trigger on a 5+ instead of 6+. Icon of Vengeance is +1Ld but interestingly is now only available to units with no mark at all. I guess Chaos Undivided needed something special too. My absolute favourite thing about icons is that they’re cheap, and they all cost the same! It’s one of those small things that sets Chaos apart from their loyalist counterparts and I really like that I’m not hamstringing myself by taking one.
I’ll be looking at HQ units in my next post, but before I do just a little disclaimer on points costs: I’m not going into them. I’ll be looking at units by virtue of their stats, rules and options. I might to comparisons to similar units, but whether or not something is “worth their points” is something I’m TERRIBLE at judging.
So first up, what’s changed? Lots, and not much. Obviously there are a lot of core rule changes in general that affect Chaos Marines but the big changes specific to us was the “removal” of Legions and Marks of Chaos. Legions and Marks are now Keywords, and in themselves don’t grant any benefits but it does open up some options for synergy later on.
I’m going to take a moment now to talk about the changes to Legions and Marks. Let’s start with Legions, since that seems to have caused the most controversy. So what were “Legions” in 7th edition? Well until the Traitor Legions supplement, nothing. Traitor Legions introduced 2 “layers” of rules for each of the 9 Traitor Legions: a suite of special rules that were gained from being declared a certain Legion, and each Legion had its own detachment that provided MORE special rules unique to that legion. Each individual Legion also had their own Warlord Traits and Relics. Wow that’s a lot of stuff! And it all had horrendous internal balance which ultimately cumulated with Death Guard being hands down the best.
Marks in 7th were an upgrade where you paid points to dedicate your units to a certain god and got a bonus for it. This is all well and good in a competitive sense – you took the mark that most benefited the unit’s role (so… Nurgle on everything?) but they were unbalanced as well. Tzeentch was almost always useless, Slaanesh and Khorne situational (and both combat oriented) and Nurgle always useful. So another win for Death Guard!
So what are the Legions and Marks now? A Keyword. Nothing more. No special rules, no special detachments, no formations, relics or warlord traits. Some units will already have a pre-set Legion, for example Abaddon the Despoiler has the BLACK LEGION keyword. Other units will have <LEGION>, which means you can pick what Legion to put there. You’re not limited to the original 9 Traitor Legions either, you can use any known Legion or Warband name or just make up your own! No longer are you punished for using Crimson Slaughter instead of Black Legion, or Eightscarred instead of World Eaters. The <MARK> Keyword is the same except you can either choose to have no mark at all and lose the keyword, or choose one of the 4 gods (no, you cannot take the mark of Malal. Damn hipsters!). Your mark will determine which Icon you can purchase and some abilities will only affect models with a certain god’s keyword. It’s basically EXACTLY the same as the Slaves to Darkness units in AoS that can choose which god to be dedicated to.
Veterans of the Long War is also gone, replaced with Death to the False Emperor which grants an extra attack against Imperium units if you roll a 6+ to hit in combat. I can’t help but feel like this is WAY worse than And They Shall Know No Fear, but I expected that and it really just encourages me to hit those smug Loyalists in the face with a chainsaw even harder anyway.
Icons are a bit different. The Khorne and Nurgle ones fill much the same roles as before. The Tzeentch one is a 1/6 chance to cast a mini-smite each Psychic phase, and the Slaanesh one makes Death to the False Emperor trigger on a 5+ instead of 6+. Icon of Vengeance is +1Ld but interestingly is now only available to units with no mark at all. I guess Chaos Undivided needed something special too. My absolute favourite thing about icons is that they’re cheap, and they all cost the same! It’s one of those small things that sets Chaos apart from their loyalist counterparts and I really like that I’m not hamstringing myself by taking one.
I’ll be looking at HQ units in my next post, but before I do just a little disclaimer on points costs: I’m not going into them. I’ll be looking at units by virtue of their stats, rules and options. I might to comparisons to similar units, but whether or not something is “worth their points” is something I’m TERRIBLE at judging.